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Re: Move to the Coyotes

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ekmanlarsson23 is not online. ekmanlarsson23
Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 434
10 Jun 2015 11:34 PM
just move them into Downtown Phoenix
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JoePaterno is not online. JoePaterno
Joined: 25 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 2278
10 Jun 2015 11:37 PM
I've posted twice today about why this is a terrible, terrible idea.

Do I have to repeat it again for you?
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
10 Jun 2015 11:39 PM
@cap

and i've posted reasons why they should keep the coyotes in arizona, but you seem to keep ignoring them
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JoePaterno is not online. JoePaterno
Joined: 25 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 2278
10 Jun 2015 11:43 PM
You're actually the one who is totally ignoring the fact that I'm talking about why playing specifically in the Talking Stick Resort Arena is a bad idea, as opposed to somewhere else that could host the team without totally relocating it like the other, smaller arena in Phoenix (Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum, capacity of 13,730 for hockey).
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muddysports44 is not online. muddysports44
Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 4605
10 Jun 2015 11:56 PM
They should keep the coyotes in Arizona for 1 reason there fans are demoted and they say they would hate if they moved.
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
11 Jun 2015 12:04 AM
@cap

you present it as if that if they move into phoenix's arena, it will be so bad that the better option is to move
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JoePaterno is not online. JoePaterno
Joined: 25 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 2278
11 Jun 2015 12:06 AM
"you present it as if that if they move into phoenix's arena, it will be so bad that the better option is to move"

Because that's exactly the reason why it's a terrible idea. The Suns' arena was so bad for hockey that it's literally the only reason why the Coyotes have to play in a smaller market in Glendale and suffer from it.
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
11 Jun 2015 12:08 AM
again, you're ignoring my point. keep them in arizona, regardless of stadiums. hockey needs to grow there, and it isn't going to grow by sending it to a greasy city in canada
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JoePaterno is not online. JoePaterno
Joined: 25 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 2278
11 Jun 2015 12:10 AM
I just mentioned a few posts ago that they could play in Phoenix's smaller arena (Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum) that doesn't suffer from the problems that the Talking Stick Resort arena does, and still has a maximum hockey capacity that is over the Coyotes' average attendance in Glendale.

Please read more carefully.

I'm still going to say that they should move out of Arizona and into Seattle, but if they're going to stay in Arizona, then the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum is really the only suitable option if Glendale isn't available.
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LolCanucksSuck is not online. LolCanucksSuck
Joined: 10 Feb 2014
Total Posts: 4164
11 Jun 2015 12:11 AM
@tato
Seattle isn't greasy or in Canada
Saskatoon would be a worst-case scenario destination
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
11 Jun 2015 01:02 AM
"I just mentioned a few posts ago that they could play in Phoenix's smaller arena (Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum) that doesn't suffer from the problems that the Talking Stick Resort arena does, and still has a maximum hockey capacity that is over the Coyotes' average attendance in Glendale."

i feel like smashing my head on a desk

you are missing the point. you see moving to any phoenix stadium as a flaw, and since they can't play in glendale, they might as well leave. that is your problem. stay in arizona. let hockey grow

"Please read more carefully."

yeah sure that's my problem

"I'm still going to say that they should move out of Arizona and into Seattle,"

why. arizona has more hockey players, a growing hockey community, and a model that has more potential than seattle.

"but if they're going to stay in Arizona, then the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum is really the only suitable option if Glendale isn't available."

i'm sure people will be fine in the phoenix arena. even with blind spots taken out, they have a capacity of 16,000. they survived in there for seven years, posting some of their best attendance records.

"Seattle isn't greasy or in Canada"

seattle sucks and isn't a good place for hockey to grow

"Saskatoon would be a worst-case scenario destination"

lol
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JoePaterno is not online. JoePaterno
Joined: 25 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 2278
11 Jun 2015 01:07 AM
"you are missing the point. you see moving to any phoenix stadium as a flaw, and since they can't play in glendale, they might as well leave. that is your problem. stay in arizona. let hockey grow"

I have not, at any point, said that moving to the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum with a temporary expansion is a flaw. Not once.




"i'm sure people will be fine in the phoenix arena. even with blind spots taken out, they have a capacity of 16,000. they survived in there for seven years, posting some of their best attendance records."

The point is, the fact that they had to close off so many seats and discount some others because of obstruction is the reason why the team could not have survived in the Talking Stick Resort Arena financially, even if they got the average attendance of 16,000. This is why they moved the team to Glendale. Phoenix's basketball-specific arena simply couldn't support hockey because of the unfavorable configuration.
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
11 Jun 2015 01:14 AM
"I have not, at any point, said that moving to the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum with a temporary expansion is a flaw. Not once."

do you know what an implication is or are you backtracking to try and bury my point

"The point is, the fact that they had to close off so many seats and discount some others because of obstruction is the reason why the team could not have survived in the Talking Stick Resort Arena financially, even if they got the average attendance of 16,000. This is why they moved the team to Glendale. Phoenix's basketball-specific arena simply couldn't support hockey because of the unfavorable configuration."

temporary until they find another phoenix suburb who wants an arena. don't move the team
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JoePaterno is not online. JoePaterno
Joined: 25 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 2278
11 Jun 2015 01:20 AM
Another thing to take into consideration with the Talking Stick Resort Arena's seating capacity, configuration, and discounted tickets is ticket pricing.

The Talking Stick Resort Arena would be the third-smallest arena in the NHL by capacity, ahead of the Barclays Center (Islanders) and MTS Centre (Jets).

The Jets and Islanders are both in the top half for average NHL ticket pricing. Jets having an average price of $253 (which is a 25% DECREASE from when the franchise started playing there), and Islanders having an average price of $155, which could potentially increase with the move to a smaller arena for next season.

The average ticket price for a Coyotes game is $90, and that's actually a 37% increase from two years ago. That is the second-cheapest average ticket price in the NHL, and is quite a bit less than 75% of what the teams in smaller arenas charge.

Considering that there are several seats in the Talking Stick Resort Arena that are going to be DISCOUNTED, this is not a good thing for ticket sale profits no matter where you are.

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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
11 Jun 2015 01:35 AM
you forget that if they have to play in phoenix next year, it means that the city of glendale will have paid them two hundred million dollars to get the hell out of glendale

i don't think they'll be concerned about prices, they can find a new city who wants them
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JoePaterno is not online. JoePaterno
Joined: 25 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 2278
11 Jun 2015 01:39 AM
"you forget that if they have to play in phoenix next year, it means that the city of glendale will have paid them two hundred million dollars to get the hell out of glendale"

Two hundred million dollars isn't going to last forever for a financially failing sports franchise in North America. Especially with systems like the salary cap. This isn't going to help them for any longer than maybe five years, which is probably how long they have until total relocation.



"i don't think they'll be concerned about prices, they can find a new city who wants them"

And Phoenix will only want them on a temporary basis because they've figured out that they cannot support hockey with an arena in the city unless they expand the AVMC which probably won't happen outside of a temporary basis for the other temporary basis of the city hosting the Coyotes. If you're looking for a city that wants the team on a permanent basis, try Seattle, Quebec City, or Las Vegas which all have plans to host a franchise.
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
11 Jun 2015 01:51 AM
"Two hundred million dollars isn't going to last forever for a financially failing sports franchise in North America. Especially with systems like the salary cap. This isn't going to help them for any longer than maybe five years, which is probably how long they have until total relocation."

once again, rapidly developing fanbase + team on the rise = paper. why do you think now is the time to give up when all signs point to a revitalization?

"And Phoenix will only want them on a temporary basis because they've figured out that they cannot support hockey with an arena in the city unless they expand the AVMC which probably won't happen outside of a temporary basis for the other temporary basis of the city hosting the Coyotes."

when the coyotes become a team that can financially support themselves (which will happen soon), someone is going to come and build

"If you're looking for a city that wants the team on a permanent basis, try Seattle, Quebec City, or Las Vegas which all have plans to host a franchise."

yeah i'm sure this is totally a good idea. throw hockey into

a) a city that has run out two previous professional teams
b) a city that has no passion for a franchise and economic turmoil
c) a city that can only sustain a team on the assumption that rich people like gambling and entertainment

instead of

- the city that has taken steps forward with hockey
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
11 Jun 2015 01:53 AM
and the salary cap is good for owners, that's why they locked out the league for a season in 2004-05. no salary cap = higher player prices = poorer owners
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JoePaterno is not online. JoePaterno
Joined: 25 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 2278
11 Jun 2015 02:00 AM
"a) a city that has run out two previous professional teams"
Three. And out of all of those, one folded because professional hockey in the Pacific temporarily died in the 1920s, and the other two folded because they played in venues that were both small and absolutely awful, which led to low incomes. The only thing that the KeyArena has ever hosted successfully is concerts, and don't even get me started on how awful Sick's Stadium was.



"b) a city that has no passion for a franchise and economic turmoil"
I'll pretend you never made that idiotic comment about Quebec City having no passion for a hockey franchise. Aaaaaand here come the "canadian bias" comments.



"c) a city that can only sustain a team on the assumption that rich people like gambling and entertainment"
I'm completely with you on the fact that Las Vegas is a crappy location for a professional sports franchise and is going to turn out like Atlanta, but unlike Phoenix, they actually have plans to host a franchises on a supposedly permanent basis which will never turn out to be permanent since the team probably won't survive 15 years.
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
11 Jun 2015 02:17 AM
"and the other two folded because they played in venues that were both small and absolutely awful, which led to low incomes. The only thing that the KeyArena has ever hosted successfully is concerts,"

or because attendance was falling down and seattle didn't want to build them a stadium

"and don't even get me started on how awful Sick's Stadium was."

or seattle has a tumultous relationship with baseball. until they won the division in 1995, they were going to relocate, and it really didn't end there

"I'll pretend you never made that idiotic comment about Quebec City having no passion for a hockey franchise. Aaaaaand here come the "canadian bias" comments."

or i've actually been to quebec city and there's literally no nordiques merchandise, memorabillia, or any thing or such to be found. remparts attendance has been down, and the only people with the desire for the nordiques to come back are the politicans that can get into office just by promising that they will come back

you have never been there. i lived in quebec for two years. no one cares about the nordiques. they're a fantasy. they were a symbol during quebec nationalism during the 80s and 90s. quebec city moved on, and it's time for everyone else to.

"but unlike Phoenix, they actually have plans to host a franchises on a supposedly permanent basis"

uhhhh the owner is suing glendale for 200 million. i think he wants to stay there
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