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hacker1leo is not online. hacker1leo
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 13536
19 Jan 2015 12:37 AM
This thread is here if you care about the truth of UCR. It has most of the information you need.

I'll have a pastebin and a google doc up on my profile description in case it's deleted or UCR HRs delete it from the walls.



THE EASY VERSION:



Almost all of UCR's "problems" are make believe. Yes, make believe.

Why?

Because for a long time people compare UCR to other groups. It's like comparing two wooden chairs. They're both wooden, and they're both chairs. For some reason, people in UCR like to think that other groups are better than us.

The fact is, other groups are just different and the members of other groups have better attitudes about their group. UCR is unlucky to have very negative members who can't get over 2009.


Stop comparing yourselves to other people. Do what you like and be proud doing it. That should be how groups and people work.



THE MORE ELABORATE VERSION:


The vast majority of UCR's problems are based on a flawed logic. This flawed logic is that UCR's success and status as a group should be compared to other groups.

Before I continue, let me define GROUP-CLAN/S and GROUP/CLAN SUCCESS.

A clan or group is a togetherness of people because they share something in common. The common things they share are not limited to but include nationality, religion, social status, orientation, hobbies... etc.

A clan or group's success is a (usually quantifiable) measure of how well the group/clan facilitates it's togetherness. An example of this is a war clan basically performing the actions of a war clan, a religion group sharing ideas and beliefs, or maybe a group for a particular country inviting other people of the same country or popularizing the country the group stands for.


Now that that's done, it's important to notice that UCR does not deliver a reason for it to be together. UCR is assumed to be a war clan but rarely (perhaps never even documented as far as I'm aware) does it directly state its purpose. This means, as far as a group's success goes, ***UCR's SUCCESS CANNOT BE MEASURED***.

So, to put it plainly:

The fact that anyone detests UCR based on objective points like "tech" or "activity" is totally useless. There is nothing to compare tech or activity to. If UCR was a clan that was supposed to recruit in large numbers, then you can say "UCR's recruitment is very poor compared to our goal of *number-of-members-it-wants-here*".

This alone invalidates many of people's over-stated criticisms of UCR.


Next, is the member attitude. Too many members of UCR are overly critical of the clan. This is, again, because too many of the members both high rank and low rank alike are misinformed. They have for years been assuming to compare UCR success to other clans and not on UCR's own goals and own demands.

The negative outlook UCR has of itself makes it impossible to grow a healthy community. Guilt, spite, neglect, and poor communication lead to ruin and disunification.

The community of UCR hasn't made itself known. Too many people are trying to force their agenda on UCR, instead of trying to urge community leaders to lay out a plan and stick to it.





SO WHERE DOES THIS PUT YOU/UCR?

Assuming you take at face value what I've said, and agree for the most part that UCR's biggest problem is member attitude and involvement, then here is a list of things you can do for yourself and UCR to make the community a little bit better.


1) UCR community needs to find its reason for being together

- Even if we can say we're a war clan, our group lacks the basics it needs to really succeed. It doesn't have a determined plan or even a very solid way of going about being a proper group.


2) Stop putting yourself before the group

- Think about your friends in UCR and trying to hang out with them. Don't just focus on getting a rank and being involved just to get it. Get involved because you like it, because you like the people you get involved with.


3) Urge your leaders to do something

- Michael (grown) and other UCR leaders aren't making the first move. No plans are being made available to the public to give UCR a purpose. And understand, UCR NEEDS A PURPOSE. All groups do. If Grown isn't going to step up, who else will but the people to set their goals and their plans.


4) Stop belittling the group

- The more you think UCR is bad and the less you get involved the worse you make UCR. It's like telling yourself a lie until you believe it to be the truth. UCR is not the worst clan in the clan world, it just doesn't have it's priorities set straight. The only thing stopping UCR from being great is UCR itself. Do all of us in UCR a service and avoid making the atmosphere out to be doomed.





Reply if you like, refute what you want. Everything I've said is fairly true. I'm not detesting grown or the administration, but by all means feel free to blame the captain of the ship for being off the course of righteousness.
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Bulder41 is not online. Bulder41
Joined: 06 Aug 2011
Total Posts: 942
19 Jan 2015 12:54 AM
preach bby
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ThePhantonHourglass is not online. ThePhantonHourglass
Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Total Posts: 6619
19 Jan 2015 01:04 AM
Oh sure, I agree - but then again, everything is make believe. This game, the way in which we measure success, life.

I'd say that UCR isn't being compared to other clans as much as it is being compared to its former self - which is a much more fair comparison than deciding to compare it to very different clans. The reason those 2009 members are so negative is because they once were a member of a much more enjoyable UCR (in their opinion). You can't change member attitude without making UCR more enjoyable - doesn't mean it needs perfect tech, to win every war, or to be 'perfect' by clan standards. That only means it needs to live up to what it once was, and it was never a technologically advanced or war-bent clan. It was fun, family-like, close knitted, and active.

Everything you suggested would help that along, of course.
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heroman12945 is not online. heroman12945
Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 339
19 Jan 2015 01:06 AM
We may not be defined as a specific type of clan, but, this does not mean it's success cannot be measured. If it isn't defined specifically, it is therefore, a collaboration of types of groups, not having a combined skillset in one field. Therefore, it's success can be measured in many different ways, the most well defined being our, 'togetherness', a field of which we are horribly lacking in.

Inactivity can be measured in any group, based on a few things, including a members/members to events ratio.

The negative view of UCR was birthed by a combination of several leaders that didn't know how to lead, a massive inactivity, and an inability to coordinate as a group.


k im too lazy to type anything else bye



~*you should eat out more often*~
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hacker1leo is not online. hacker1leo
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 13536
19 Jan 2015 01:43 AM
Using the definition I gave, the success is determined by comparing a clan's actions and status to the desired status and performance. Because of that, it remains to be immeasurable. UCR has no preset goal and to assume it has various goals means UCR is opening itself to a harsher workload. Any experienced entrepreneur or product pusher will tell you that trying to please everyone and meet everyone's needs will actually not help you. Its better to cater to a specific market. In our case, its better to be open to a specific set f people who want whatever we offer.

UCR unfortunately isn't offering people much. As I said before, UCR is a fine clan, its just the priorities are all out of shape.

Don't drink the kool aid. UCR has issues because people create them.

Spread this awareness for good measure, I like the feedback.
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Akkora is not online. Akkora
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Total Posts: 25
19 Jan 2015 03:37 AM
i just wanna have game night yo
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hacker1leo is not online. hacker1leo
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 13536
19 Jan 2015 03:41 AM
Akk:

Then do it. I said it clearly in the suggestions, make a move.
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webspace is not online. webspace
Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 119892
19 Jan 2015 05:00 AM
"Almost all of UCR's "problems" are make believe. Yes, make believe."


loooooooooooooool
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Killer6199 is not online. Killer6199
Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 42327
19 Jan 2015 09:26 AM
I'd appreciate it if you asked me or rapster2 about our future plans before quickly determining we are doing absolutely nothing =(

although I'd reckon some of those points are correct - but the primary focus and lovable attribute of UCR, the community, is slowly deteriorating and falling apart. They are disappointed that we lack trainings, that we lack activity, that we cannot win wars. They are disappointed our training facilities aren't fun, aren't well developed, and aren't unique that actually train members.

We can't just assume that UCR does not have problems, sure it does have it's advantages and perks compared to other clans - but if we lose the main aspect of United Clan of ROBLOX, we've lost the game.

and to the point that we aren't doing anything - we are, it's just harder to apply these changes and enforce them if the members do not care.

coming soon;

>vip game (funding)
>new uniform
>new training facility
>weekly gamenight
>officer changes
>high rank training enforcement
>addition of enjoying ourselves with allied communities
>teamspeak additional policies

and that's only the brick of it.

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hacker1leo is not online. hacker1leo
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 13536
19 Jan 2015 11:18 AM
"I'd appreciate it if you asked me or rapster2 about our future plans before quickly determining we are doing absolutely nothing =(

although I'd reckon some of those points are correct - but the primary focus and lovable attribute of UCR, the community, is slowly deteriorating and falling apart. They are disappointed that we lack trainings, that we lack activity, that we cannot win wars. They are disappointed our training facilities aren't fun, aren't well developed, and aren't unique that actually train members.

We can't just assume that UCR does not have problems, sure it does have it's advantages and perks compared to other clans - but if we lose the main aspect of United Clan of ROBLOX, we've lost the game.

and to the point that we aren't doing anything - we are, it's just harder to apply these changes and enforce them if the members do not care."


Sorry. Talking to people is hard since I was kicked from the UCR skype chat and nobody discusses things on the wall anymore.


Your point there about the community is basically what summing up what I said in the thread. We agree. See, years ago, we didn't have well-developed training facilities. As for winning wars, UCR used to get loopkilled in the RAT - UCR Rowar... Literally nobody really won that lol. We'd loopkill each other in succession.


UCRians want to have fun. They want something out of the clan. We have perfectly decent places to take them to. I think the problem, again, is that UCR does not set forth what the clan really is. What is UCR? Are we a war group? Futuristic? Modernistic? Steampunk?

If UCR just keeps trying to induct all of ROBLOX into it, we're opening ourselves up for failure. By not making a plan and focusing on doing a few people a great service, we're doing nobody a service of any kind.

You say if we lose the main aspect of UCR it's over. What is that aspect? I've been in this group for 5 years. Most of us have. I only twice heard of a weak description of UCR. Neither instances were officially documented.


Also, I keep saying making a plan and sticking to it, and what I mean is making an effort to strengthen the community of UCR. But I see that I was misinformed and you are trying things. Nevertheless, it's up to members to own up to their part in this. The first people to say that UCR was bad was UCR's own ex-members and malcontents. All of those ex-members quit around the time ben left and a second time when trick left. It was and sometimes still is our own community to detest itself.
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Akkora is not online. Akkora
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Total Posts: 25
19 Jan 2015 11:41 AM
hey IMO biggest thing we need rn is a leader change because without an active leader we can't do any of those things
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hacker1leo is not online. hacker1leo
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 13536
19 Jan 2015 11:55 AM
Akkora:

Yes you can actually.

I think you're making a mistake in jumping to a leader change. What other routes have you taken? Has the whole community reached out to the president?

I don't see anybody really stepping up very often.
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Igniited is not online. Igniited
Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 13019
19 Jan 2015 02:53 PM
[ Content Deleted ]
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hacker1leo is not online. hacker1leo
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 13536
20 Jan 2015 06:33 PM
First Argument: Your first point makes an appeal to popularity. It's a fallacy. Just because a wide group of people say black is white doesn't mean they're right. Many UCRians and people of the clan world were lead to their current mode of thought because people like me were shunned, trolled, and ignored throughout the years when attempting to enlighten everyone on the legitimate nature of clans.

A new leader will be a good start. Why? Because the current one seems to be having trust issues, even with clan veterans. He refuses to take help of developers who want improve tech, he chooses to ignore the countless threads posing problems with the clan WITH solutions, and he remains inactive due to school (something that won't improve until this summer). Additionally, he is a leader, his main job is to lead the clan, which he is clearly not doing well enough.

Second Argument: Maybe a new leader is a good choice. It is my thinking that, based on years of observation and experimenting, that the community itself is partly to blame for UCR's problems.


Third Argument: I'm not clearly in the wrong just because a wide range of people think UCR has problems. I'm very right, and righteous, in my argument that many of UCR's problems are made up. I'm not saying all of the problems are made up. My point rather is that UCR's community and attitude are itself THE biggest and most concerning problem, and the majority of other issues that you continually bring up are the result of the former. If the community shaped up, the issues in UCR would ship out for the most part. This is an undeniable truth. Mind you, my argument also provides that, by the definition I gave, UCR is naturally incapable of succeeding for it has not set forth its own goals or purpose even. Again, an undeniable truth.

"The clan is in bad shape" is a very misguided assumption. What is the good shape? UCR has not defined what constitutes being in good shape. Thus, I assert that we can't be in bad shape simply because there is no standard by which to measure the shape of UCR. Shape I guess representing quality.



Finally, you completely and totally passed over the advice I gave to members looking to help the community heal. More important to me than semantics and attempting to preach to UCR my beliefs is at least providing an undeniable truth: if we all make an effort, we can help heal and grow our UCR community. That is the MAIN point in all this, I want to urge the people to help themselves and each other regardless of whether I may be right or wrong (so far I have no reason to think I am wrong).
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Igniited is not online. Igniited
Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 13019
20 Jan 2015 07:11 PM
[ Content Deleted ]
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runesman181 is not online. runesman181
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 1451
20 Jan 2015 07:14 PM
Leo, why the heck do we always share the same ideas. lol
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OleBenjvmin is not online. OleBenjvmin
Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 13
20 Jan 2015 07:22 PM
LOL, if UCR can comeback i will play roblox again.


Sike, However these problems have been building up for years.
It would take a minute to get the group to function as one big unit again.


.... Should be interesting
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hacker1leo is not online. hacker1leo
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 13536
20 Jan 2015 07:23 PM
If you read my first point, it clearly states that facts are facts. If a large group of people believe black is black, and you're sayingblack is white, and the facts state that black is black, you're wrong. That is the situation here. Large group of people think UCR is in bad shape, you think it isn't, the fact is that it is. And I stated the several domains in which UCR is failing.

-- what you said isn't anywhere near fact. Stop lying. You used a fallacy and you cling to popular **wrong** opinions to boost your argument.


I didn't say the community isn't to blame. But an active leader would be a jump start for a clan. Something the last 3 leaders failed to provide.

-- We agree but our focuses are clearly different.


You keep saying they are made up, yet you fail to state why. Counter the arguments saying UCR is failing under activity, tell us why it isn't failing. Saying UCR has nothing to be compared with is a horrid argument because it can be compared to several things. It can be compared to its past, specifically in TDFall's era. The clan was doing well under him, yet failed completely right after he left. Don't give me the crap about the clan world changing, the clan world doesn't change in a month.

-- I don't need to counter it. The argument doesn't exist. I'm saying that UCR can't fail if it doesn't have goals with which to determine success or failure. That in and of itself dispels your argument. Prove to me that UCR has goals with which to draw a failure from. The burden of proof rests on your hands in that regard. For me, proving UCR has not made or set goals is simple: No documented evidence can be found of specific quotas being made for the clan. No documented evidence of UCR's purpose can be found.

UCR can also be compared to other superclans, considering it is classified as one. Having almost 40k members yet 3 show up at a training, is not helping your point.

-- UCR has thousands of alts and inactive members. You're not proportioning UCR properly. This is another assumption you and many people make that bothers me and leaves me with no good reason to give your reasoning much credibility.



If you have noticed, the attitude for UCR is generally good when a new leader takes over because we all think he will deliver on his promises, that he will be the one. Yet the leader always disappoints the clan. I don't see why one day after appointment, you must wait 3 months before you're ready to lead the clan. If you're appointed President of UCR, the very next is when you should start making the necessary changes. Don't wait until the hype dies down, because that only negatively affects the clan, and later there is little to no hype to support you when you do actually do something.


-- That's some good advice. I can sort of agree. But the reception of dizzdazz and jko were not such positive ones.
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TheRenegadeAnarchist is not online. TheRenegadeAnarchist
Joined: 04 Jun 2011
Total Posts: 1272
20 Jan 2015 07:24 PM
UCR is beyond the point of no return
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Condemning is not online. Condemning
Joined: 15 May 2009
Total Posts: 3071
20 Jan 2015 07:26 PM
Hot damn are you guys still here
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OleBenjvmin is not online. OleBenjvmin
Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 13
20 Jan 2015 07:26 PM
Leo when did you come back?
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Blast87 is not online. Blast87
Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Total Posts: 2312
20 Jan 2015 07:26 PM
its roblaxians noobs.
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OleBenjvmin is not online. OleBenjvmin
Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 13
20 Jan 2015 07:28 PM
Its actually quite easy to bring back or bring into a new era of UCR
Just need serious people who are going to work within and try to bring in activity

Seriously, the leaders.... WHERE DEY AT THO?
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hacker1leo is not online. hacker1leo
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 13536
20 Jan 2015 08:05 PM
I don't remember you.

I sort of have been ghost-watching UCR.
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OleBenjvmin is not online. OleBenjvmin
Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 13
20 Jan 2015 08:51 PM
Formly "Captanrapid"

Weren't you in REF?

i know you from somewhere.
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