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Re: new york city you're man city b, you're man city b

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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 09:44 PM
oops forgot melbourne;
they're man city c
they're man city c
they're man city c and won't spend for players like wilfried bony!
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KingKevinXI is not online. KingKevinXI
Joined: 14 Oct 2014
Total Posts: 234
14 Jan 2015 09:49 PM
I hate how Manchester has a "academy" team pretty much in the MLS.

MLS doesn't need B teams of Premier League teams in there league.

It's kind of stupid. But hey, whatever.
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
14 Jan 2015 09:54 PM
rune what do you think of this article


/FeILNl


google link
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 10:09 PM
Let me start off by saying that people forget that Jozy Altidore is 25, had offers in the Bundesliga, Ligue 1, and Holland, and could go back to Europe if he wanted to.

And this article is dumb for two reasons.

1. It bases the worth of MLS on what fans from Europe think and their perceptions of the league. No matter how good or bad MLS ever is, they'll always say it sucks and that it's the worst league in the world when it isn't.

2. Jozy Altidore is not a proven failure in Europe. That's stupid. He's been successful everywhere except for the EPL.

3. Altidore won't fail in MLS and he's expected to be a difference maker cause he has been every single place except for Hull City and Sunderland. As a 17 year old teenager, Altidore scored 17 goals in 35 or so MLS appearances. He's the USMNT's 5th all time leading scorer and is the starting forward regardless of how bad his club form is, because he's always produced at the international level.



The writer of this article also talks about how USMNT players are coming back after "failing" in Europe.

First off, the ignorant writer is assuming that

1. Every single league in Europe is better than MLS
2. Not playing at all in Europe is more important than getting consistent playing time in MLS

The drop off in quality is really not that steep. Do you think Jurgen Klinsmann would let any of these guys go to MLS or call them up if he thought it was bad for them?

"Michael Bradley, one of the USMNT's biggest stars, made a controversial return last year. Brek Shea, Maurice Edu, and Mix Diskerud have all just recently signed to MLS teams. In addition to being a final lap for once-great foreigners, this country's top flight has become home to Americans who fail when they test themselves in foreign lands—a respite not just for famous has-beens, but for famous not-quites and never-weres."

1. Bradley was successful in Europe and had offers to stay. He chose not to and decided to come back to MLS because of his family situation.

2. MLS is better than the Norwegian Tippeligaen, and Jurgen Klinsmann encouraged Diskerud's move to MLS so there's that

3. Brek Shea had 8 appearances in 2 and a half years for Stoke/Birmingham City. He was once again, encouraged by Klinsmann to come back to MLS

4. Edu had offers in the English Championship

And to drive my point home, Clint Dempsey scored two World Cup goals this summer after people said he was "retiring" to go back to MLS and that the competition was inferior, therefore he would not be able to perform at the World Cup.

These were the same people criticizing Landon Donovan for never leaving MLS and ignoring his achievements on the international stage and his overseas loans.
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 10:19 PM
And no I'm not saying MLS is the best league in the world, but outside of the Bundesliga, Serie A, EPL, Ligue 1, and La Liga, you won't get a USMNT call up just for playing in Europe unless you're the leading goalscorer on your team and your team is one of the best in your top flight league.

There's a growing trend of players such as Michael Stephens, Baggio Husidic, Zarek Valentin, Cole Grossman, etc. going to Scandinavian leagues because they couldn't get consistent playing time in MLS and were stuck behind other players. And they've all started and played well.

Michael Stephens couldn't get off the bench for the LA Galaxy and he goes to Stabaek and Norway, starts every single game, and has a 3 goal and 6 assist campaign.

Zarek Valentin can't get on the field for Montreal behind Jeb Brovsky, so he goes to Bodo/Glimt in Norway on loan, wins the starting job, and makes the permanent move over.
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 10:29 PM
USMNT players aren't going back to MLS because they see it as easy. They're going back because they now think of the improved gameplay as a viable option to play and get national team call-ups consistently compared to when they left.

Watch highlights from the MLS 2007 season compared to the 2014 season. The difference is staggering.
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
14 Jan 2015 10:43 PM
"1. It bases the worth of MLS on what fans from Europe think and their perceptions of the league. No matter how good or bad MLS ever is, they'll always say it sucks and that it's the worst league in the world when it isn't."

the writer was in an MLS academy from the early days, is a season's ticket holder since day one, and is a big USA/MLS homer, so that theory is tossed out the window

"2. Jozy Altidore is not a proven failure in Europe. That's stupid. He's been successful everywhere except for the EPL."

??????
you actually can't say this. it isn't factual

villareal: 9 games, one goal, loaned out three times
loan at xerez (league 2/3 spain): nothing
hull city (championship days): 28 games, one goal
bursaspor (turkey): 12 games, one goal

AZ: 67 games, 39 goals (if you read the article, the author notes that eredivise is known for high scoring)

sunderland: 42 appearances, 1 goal

he has clearly flames out everywhere, you can't argue that

"3. Altidore won't fail in MLS and he's expected to be a difference maker cause he has been every single place except for Hull City and Sunderland."

he's only been a difference maker (at the club level) at AZ, you can't argue that

"First off, the ignorant writer is assuming that"

he's been covering MLS and USMNT for many years, but okay

"1. Every single league in Europe is better than MLS"

okay, but he's talking about the leagues that were better than the MLS that players went to

"2. Not playing at all in Europe is more important than getting consistent playing time in MLS"

no, he's actually saying that players are given lofty expectations by european teams because of their status in the MLS, and then when they go, they can't crack the team. he is really offering no opinion on this, he's just stating fact. many MLS players go to europe, and sit on the bench.

"The drop off in quality is really not that steep."

that's not what the transfer market and european teams are saying

"Do you think Jurgen Klinsmann would let any of these guys go to MLS or call them up if he thought it was bad for them?"

i'm confused. does klinsmann control who goes to the MLS?

"1. Bradley was successful in Europe and had offers to stay. He chose not to and decided to come back to MLS because of his family situation."

as a roma fan, he did not have many options left in italy besides playing at one of the lower table squads. he got forced out by nainggolan of all people

"3. Brek Shea had 8 appearances in 2 and a half years for Stoke/Birmingham City. He was once again, encouraged by Klinsmann to come back to MLS"

doesn't this agree with what the author is saying? shea did not do well in england, so he came back to where he could actually play.

"4. Edu had offers in the English Championship"

that's not really high quality stuff

"And to drive my point home, Clint Dempsey scored two World Cup goals this summer after people said he was "retiring" to go back to MLS and that the competition was inferior, therefore he would not be able to perform at the World Cup."

the author wrote in the comments that dempsey came back because he needed playing time before the world cup, something he wasn't getting in england

"These were the same people criticizing Landon Donovan for never leaving MLS and ignoring his achievements on the international stage and his overseas loans."

international achievements? fine. overseas loans? not really. he did not do good in his two stints with everton, couldn't do anything with bayern munich, and leverkusen didn't really use him either
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 10:54 PM
and if MLS is a "retirement league" why did Erick "Cubo" Torres, a 21 year old who has just broken into the Mexican National Team decide to sign with the Houston Dynamo instead of Guadalajara?

why did Matt Besler choose to sign a contract extension with Sporting KC after the World Cup despite having offers from SC Freiburg, West Ham, and West Brom?

why is Sebastian Giovinco choosing to sign for TFC in his prime right now despite having offers from the likes of Arsenal?

why did David Accam choose to sign with the Chicago Fire after having offers from Tigres, Eintracht Frankfurt, Stuttgart, and CSKA Moscow?

why has Omar Gonzalez chosen to stay with the LA Galaxy after drawing attention from the Bundesliga and Premier League upon numerous occasions?

Does MLS need signings like Lampard or Gerrard to improve the quality of the league? No they don't. They can go to South America/Central America and sign guys like Diego Valeri, Octavio Romero, Ignacio Piatti and Boniek Garcia for a fraction of the cost.

The reason MLS signs guys like Lampard/Gerrard and hold international friendlies in the middle of the season is because that's the only reason people who don't pay attention to the growth of the league will show up.
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 11:01 PM
Also, you should read this
It's from ex-MLS player Bobby Warshaw

"At the end of the day, though, the real question is the product on the field. I haven't left this for last for any big literary statement; I put it off because it's the part that I find the hardest to explain. I played in the league for three years. I have friends on every team in the league. None of us are going to tell you that MLS is the same level as La Liga. I suppose the questions then become, How far below is the level? and How much does that difference matter?

I'll make the basic point that I always make when confronted with this question: If you are saying that you'd rather watch Stoke City vs. West Ham instead of Seattle Sounders vs. Portland, you aren't being honest. Stoke and West Ham don't play better soccer than MLS teams. If you'd rather watch a mid-level Premier League game than an MLS game, it goes beyond soccer aesthetics. There is European football bias creeping in. When Americans think of European football, we think of Manchester United and Barcelona and Bayern Munich. There's nothing I can say to put MLS in the same sentence with those teams. Those clubs are beautiful to watch. But there is more to European football than the mega-clubs. We shouldn't put European leagues on a pedestal of mysterious wonder because of the elite few. We should understand the distinction between Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Atlético Madrid and Almería, Granada, and Elche. We shouldn't expect all teams to be as awesome as the dominating elite. It's disingenuous to lump all European football together. MLS teams as a whole can often match the European middle tier squads in possession, pressure, and pace. Watching the games, Genoa-Livorno doesn't ooze quality over Kansas City-Salt Lake.

I'm not telling anyone to do MLS a favor and follow it out of pity. Like Chevrolet, Major League Soccer is a business. And thus far, Major League Soccer has survived, even thrived. Like Chevrolet (or Honda? I'm not good with car metaphors), businesses don't thrive unless they have a worthwhile product. If you're supposed to buy stocks on the rise, you'd buy MLS. Call Michael Bradley and Clint Dempsey all the names that you want, but they make MLS more exciting. I'm telling you to get excited about the MLS season because it will be a roller coaster ride of wins and losses and gossip and turmoil. You don't need to do MLS a favor by caring. But you might find you like what you see."
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
14 Jan 2015 11:03 PM
"and if MLS is a "retirement league""'

he didn't say "retirement league" he just said that it was a league that wasn't achieving any of the goals that it had been set out for

"why did Erick "Cubo" Torres, a 21 year old who has just broken into the Mexican National Team decide to sign with the Houston Dynamo instead of Guadalajara?"

many reasons? money? leaving the dangerous country of mexico? a better life? he liked the colours? i don't know, and you don't either

"why did Matt Besler choose to sign a contract extension with Sporting KC after the World Cup despite having offers from SC Freiburg, West Ham, and West Brom?"

doesn't like moving?

"why is Sebastian Giovinco choosing to sign for TFC in his prime right now despite having offers from the likes of Arsenal?"

probably because it would be a free transfer to arsenal that pays him a decent amount to sit on the bench and he really isn't in his prime considering that he has only played in four games this season compared to playing 48 the past two seasons

"why did David Accam choose to sign with the Chicago Fire after having offers from Tigres, Eintracht Frankfurt, Stuttgart, and CSKA Moscow?"

"Accam rejected a move to CSKA Moscow, having insisted that Accam hadn't been in talks with the club.[15]"

you know that not all transfer rumours are true right

"why has Omar Gonzalez chosen to stay with the LA Galaxy after drawing attention from the Bundesliga and Premier League upon numerous occasions?"

??????

are you making some of these things up? google searches reveal that gonzalez, after his loan to nurnberg, received no further connection with any bundesliga team, and the only connection with a premier league team is leicester and that's only one source

"Does MLS need signings like Lampard or Gerrard to improve the quality of the league? No they don't."

so why does the MLS keep signing these guys?

"They can go to South America/Central America and sign guys like Diego Valeri, Octavio Romero, Ignacio Piatti and Boniek Garcia for a fraction of the cost."

except no one is interested in these guys and they don't stand to improve the quality of the league by any amount

"The reason MLS signs guys like Lampard/Gerrard and hold international friendlies in the middle of the season is because that's the only reason people who don't pay attention to the growth of the league will show up."

so they're doing it to survive and still be a league five years from now

wouldn't you argue that's a good thing? keep a little sideshow going while the mainshow is getting ready?
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
14 Jan 2015 11:08 PM
yes i read that (it was on deadspin so yah). he has some points, and i'm not saying all things europe >>>> MLS, i'm just saying that the article raises some points about how the MLS isn't developing players or becoming a top class league as well as it and it's fans claims it is
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 11:14 PM

"Accam rejected a move to CSKA Moscow, having insisted that Accam hadn't been in talks with the club.[15]"

"you know that not all transfer rumours are true right"

Regardless, he was receiving offers from all throughout Europe after scoring 30 goals in 3 years for one of the best teams in Sweden


"are you making some of these things up? google searches reveal that gonzalez, after his loan to nurnberg, received no further connection with any bundesliga team, and the only connection with a premier league team is leicester and that's only one source"

no i am not. he was supposed to leave last offseason but decided to stay. he actually might transfer in the summer of this season.


"except no one is interested in these guys and they don't stand to improve the quality of the league by any amount"

please watch the likes of Diego Valeri and Ignacio Piatti before you make such claims.
Piatti led San Lorenzo to the Copa Libertadores final and they won.
They are going to the FIFA Club World Cup next year as the best team in all of South America.


"so they're doing it to survive and still be a league five years from now

wouldn't you argue that's a good thing? keep a little sideshow going while the mainshow is getting ready?"

1. i didn't say it was a bad thing. i don't mind it for the exact reason that you stated
2. they don't need these players to survive. MLS is beyond the point where it can fold.
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 11:19 PM
please tell me these type of players do not improve the quality of the league?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY2VMbjPetw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-BePDYEcm8
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 11:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuJ5GrKbQJg
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 11:22 PM
even better than the last one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdo2QO1rEbo
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
14 Jan 2015 11:25 PM
"Piatti led San Lorenzo to the Copa Libertadores final and they won.
They are going to the FIFA Club World Cup next year as the best team in all of South America."

he's going into a competition against european clubs who treat these matches as tune-ups during the holiday season

"2. they don't need these players to survive. MLS is beyond the point where it can fold."

you say that so confidently, but you fail to realize that the MLS's breakout was mainly due to the arrivals of david beckham, robbie keane, and theirry henry, among others. the european presence has an unmistakeable impact on the success of the league.
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
14 Jan 2015 11:29 PM
yeah sorry it just looks like men against boys in those clips. those players don't look overly impressive, everyone around them just looks bad.
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 11:30 PM
"he's going into a competition against european clubs who treat these matches as tune-ups during the holiday season"

he's not because he chose to sign for the Montreal Impact instead. and it doesn't matter cause you're failing to acknowledge that he led his team to win the most prestigious tournament in the entire continent of South America.


"you say that so confidently, but you fail to realize that the MLS's breakout was mainly due to the arrivals of david beckham, robbie keane, and theirry henry, among others. the european presence has an unmistakeable impact on the success of the league."

i'm talking about now in the present. and yes i do say so confidently because it is true.
the arrival of David Beckham did indeed start the growth of the league to where it is today. i'm only stating that if all of these european superstars stopped coming to MLS today, the league would be financially able to stand on it's own.
i will welcome Cristiano Ronaldo when he comes to MLS at the end of his career, because he will have an even greater effect than David Beckham did.
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 11:33 PM
"yeah sorry it just looks like men against boys in those clips. those players don't look overly impressive, everyone around them just looks bad."

that's your opinion and i respect it.
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
14 Jan 2015 11:35 PM
"he's not because he chose to sign for the Montreal Impact instead."

wow he likes money

"and it doesn't matter cause you're failing to acknowledge that he led his team to win the most prestigious tournament in the entire continent of South America."

i'm not going to trust your opinion on this one

"i'm talking about now in the present. and yes i do say so confidently because it is true."

yet those in the know and those with the power keep signing the aging europeans. funny how that works

"the arrival of David Beckham did indeed start the growth of the league to where it is today. i'm only stating that if all of these european superstars stopped coming to MLS today, the league would be financially able to stand on it's own."

but for how long?

"i will welcome Cristiano Ronaldo when he comes to MLS at the end of his career, because he will have an even greater effect than David Beckham did."

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooool
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123yonnd is online. 123yonnd
Top 100 Poster
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Total Posts: 66637
14 Jan 2015 11:40 PM
"the arrival of David Beckham did indeed start the growth of the league to where it is today. i'm only stating that if all of these european superstars stopped coming to MLS today, the league would be financially able to stand on it's own."

but for how long?

___________________________________

Considering that attendance will most likely average over well 20k in 2015. The league is growing and far from folding.

"i will welcome Cristiano Ronaldo when he comes to MLS at the end of his career, because he will have an even greater effect than David Beckham did."

lo*not going to do the rest*l

_____________________________________

He's made it pretty clear that he has shown interest in joining MLS at some point of his career. And he would be a bigger impact than Beckham if it does happen.
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 11:45 PM
"wow he likes money"

San Lorenzo was paying him $1.2 million
Montreal is paying him $400,000


"i'm not going to trust your opinion on this one"

it's true. everyone knows winning the Copa Libertadores is the highest honor in South America.


"yet those in the know and those with the power keep signing the aging europeans. funny how that works"

why wouldn't you want to sell jerseys, increase attendance, and international reputation?



"i will welcome Cristiano Ronaldo when he comes to MLS at the end of his career, because he will have an even greater effect than David Beckham did."

http://www.espnfc.com/story/1129968/cristiano-ronaldo-i-hope-to-play-in-mls-one-day
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
14 Jan 2015 11:50 PM
"Considering that attendance will most likely average over well 20k in 2015. The league is growing and far from folding."

Don't forget the new ESPN/Fox/Univision TV contract kicking in this year that pays MLS $88 million each year until 2022
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Swagudelo is not online. Swagudelo
Joined: 23 May 2013
Total Posts: 24436
15 Jan 2015 12:03 AM
"The club champion of the 2014 Copa Libertadores will be awarded with US$5,350,000 in prize money. The top goalscorer of the tournament receives the Alberto Spencer Trophy and $30,000."

"The tournament attracts television audiences beyond South America.[104] The matches are broadcast in over 135 countries, with commentaries in more than 30 languages, and it is often considered as one of the most watched sports events on TV;[104] Fox Sports en Latinoamérica, for example, reaches more than 25 million households in the American continent alone.The 2009 edition saw over 1 billion television spectators in total tune in for the competition."

"The tournament is highly regarded among its participants. In 2010, players from Guadalajara stated that they would rather play the Copa Libertadores final rather than appear on a friendly against Spain, the reigning FIFA World Cup holders who are playing with their best side,[79] and dispute their own national league.[80]

Players from Santos FC have stated, after their triumph in the 2010 Copa do Brasil, that they would rather stay in the club and participate in the 2011 Copa Libertadores, despite having multi-million dollar contracts lining up for them from clubs participating in the UEFA Champions League, such as Chelsea of England and Lyon of France.[81]

Oscar Cordoba has stated that the Copa Libertadores was the most important trophy he attained (above the Argentine league, Intercontinental Cup, etc.)[82] Deco, winner of two UEFA Champions League medals with Porto and Barcelona 2004 and 2006, respectively, stated he would exchange those two victories for a Copa Libertadores triumph.[83]
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doctorgonzo is not online. doctorgonzo
Joined: 19 May 2014
Total Posts: 12261
15 Jan 2015 12:51 PM
"San Lorenzo was paying him $1.2 million
Montreal is paying him $400,000"

do you have sources for this or

"it's true. everyone knows winning the Copa Libertadores is the highest honor in South America."

i'm not doubting that point, i'm doubting that he was the sole reason for it happening

"why wouldn't you want to sell jerseys, increase attendance, and international reputation? "

international reputation? 90% of the world sees the MLS as a retirement league. bringing in these players does not improve their reputation.

""I think they do it well," Ronaldo told the MLS website when asked for his thoughts on the league. "To come here and do the preseason, for me it's great, because this county is brilliant - the mentality of the people, the conditions."

"Ronaldo told the MLS website"

i'm not sure CR7 would openly and actively talk crap to the league's face. he's being interviewed by the MLS. it's to drum up interest in the league. if you don't think this is a publicity stunt designed to get people talking, you're lying to yourself. CR7 openly flirts with returning to man u or not renewing his contract at real madrid. he's a publicity generator

""The tournament attracts television audiences beyond South America.[104] The matches are broadcast in over 135 countries, with commentaries in more than 30 languages, and it is often considered as one of the most watched sports events on TV;[104] Fox Sports en Latinoamérica, for example, reaches more than 25 million households in the American continent alone.The 2009 edition saw over 1 billion television spectators in total tune in for the competition.""

this doesn't sound made up at all

""The tournament is highly regarded among its participants. In 2010, players from Guadalajara stated that they would rather play the Copa Libertadores final rather than appear on a friendly against Spain, the reigning FIFA World Cup holders who are playing with their best side,[79] and dispute their own national league.[80]"

i think most teams would want to play a competitive game that means something (and get paid for it) rather than play a meaningless game in which they have no hope in

"Players from Santos FC have stated, after their triumph in the 2010 Copa do Brasil, that they would rather stay in the club and participate in the 2011 Copa Libertadores, despite having multi-million dollar contracts lining up for them from clubs participating in the UEFA Champions League, such as Chelsea of England and Lyon of France.[81]"

good old fashioned unnamed sources. looking at citation [81], they're talking about perrenial benchwarmer robinho, who knows he would go to europe to sit on a bench

"Oscar Cordoba has stated that the Copa Libertadores was the most important trophy he attained (above the Argentine league, Intercontinental Cup, etc.)[82] Deco, winner of two UEFA Champions League medals with Porto and Barcelona 2004 and 2006, respectively, stated he would exchange those two victories for a Copa Libertadores triumph.[83]"

deco is really stupid then.
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