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Re: Cooperation in Clan Leadership and CONEX

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Crakkitty is not online. Crakkitty
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 17408
05 Jan 2015 08:58 PM
With the discussion of the dynamics going on between Pragmatic and Obtention, let's talk about these kinds of leadership, and a few things that are neccessary in them - so that you may better prepare yourself for these situations in the future. Clearly, the breakup of Obtention and Pragmatic is the result of a culmination of spiraling events which eventually became too much for either to bear with.

First of all, in a clan community where power resides primarily in two strong individuals (in the case of a powerful SiC that holds almost the same amount of influence), both individuals //must// first and foremost be on the same path. Both must be equally committed, and both must have the same goals in mind for creating a clan. Whether for monetary purpose or not, both people must be on the same terms, and this should be established at the start of the clan, and continuously reinforced through daily constructive talks. Castellian and I, at the start of TGI, both wanted to create a clan that would hold up to our visions of what a proper 'power clan' should be. While we each had our own goals alongside that, our determination to create a power-clan was our topmost priority, and we put in (arguably) the same amount of work at its start.

Upon seeing Pragmatic create CONEX, one must consider his own priorities. Whereas Pragmatic has long stood in the lime-light in the clan world, he's become moreso as developer at this point, so one can see CONEX as a sort of front for him to develop his skills as a developer. On the other hand, you have Obtention, who has been primarily a leader through his clan career, caring more for the feeling of being in charge than of creating technology. When taking a look at CONEX, one must first see this inner-dynamic in order to understand the breakdown of events. In my opinion, their relationship's demise cannot be explained by simple events. Instead, I believe, it is this conflict of interest, which serves as the primary point. Was CONEX created as an experiment in development, or as a clan meant to last?

Another thing that I believe is necessary for a dual power structure is that both members maintain both the same level of commitment, and the appearance of the same level of commitment. Even if one person is doing a bunch for the clan, if it's not visible to the other person, it's not being done right. Cooperation is key to these kinds of things, and in a clan such as CONEX where power (essentially) rested in both Pragmatic and Obtention, their commitment should have been equally shown. From looking at their statements made earlier today, you can observe that both people had different observations come their end. Obtention saw Pragmatic as lying around lazily not shaken by his real life events (as he claimed to be in his statement), while Pragmatic saw himself as unmotivated due to grief.

This ties into my final point, communication. If you don't have positive communication with each other - don't bother. If you have conflicts of interests, misunderstandings, or problems about things, address them, and /FIX/ them. If both people are to exist as coexistent, than both people must have an equal understanding of events. You MUST come to agreements on things, and you must work as a TEAM to accomplish things. If you're going to rely on your SiC as a leader, you must give up your dictatorial control over them. Rather than yelling at them or ordering them, speak to them as an equal, because I know first hand: many times, second in commands, though just as vital as the leaders, are not often appreciated. You shouldn't care if you have an exile button, but you should care about how your SiC perceives you and your actions. That's not to say that you are to be utterly submissive, but you should be able to rationalize things out through verbal communication.

I wrote longer than I thought I would, but that's because I'm sick of seeing relationships in clans dissolve because of such matters. Despite being outside of CONEX, I really did wish something from those members. Those members, who have persistently came back to Prag/Obtention after months without fruition are, in my opinion, extremely diligent to put after the constant ups and downs. Kudos to you all. Having said this, I do not believe CONEX should continue as a clan in the state it is. Members in the clan likely have ties towards both Obtention and Pragmatic, and with the negative relationships between the two, the same will likely manifest in the clan itself. CONEX will likely have conflicts of interests within their members, and said members will likely show a rift because of split loyalties. I believe that both leaders should persue their own interests, independent of each other. Does Pragmatic want to lead more? Go for it. And Obtention too? Why not. But please, for the sake of everyone, work on your own agendas, I believe both of you are more than capable of creating great works on your own.

there goes 10 minutes of my life



~am a cat meow~
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xMaleden is not online. xMaleden
Joined: 22 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 2542
05 Jan 2015 09:00 PM
tl;dr 2-man partnerships don't work
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Pragmatist is not online. Pragmatist
Joined: 17 Oct 2008
Total Posts: 16170
05 Jan 2015 09:00 PM
This was nice
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Seviro is not online. Seviro
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 46758
05 Jan 2015 09:00 PM
i love you lily
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LordLancer is online. LordLancer
Joined: 24 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 12009
05 Jan 2015 09:01 PM
yay CTR

glory to prime legion
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Crakkitty is not online. Crakkitty
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 17408
05 Jan 2015 09:03 PM
"tl;dr 2-man partnerships don't work"

You're wrong, they most certainly work, although they are very fragile. In my opinion, there has to exist a joint reason for the clan. If both leaders are dedicated to the same goal, and work together, it can create very powerful results (see TGI under my early leadership/Vaktovia, who has (arguably) been under a 2-system rule every since Supreme General has been a thing.

~am a cat meow~
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TheMedievalist is not online. TheMedievalist
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Total Posts: 10476
05 Jan 2015 09:04 PM
gg kitty.
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Textorial is not online. Textorial
Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 5341
05 Jan 2015 09:05 PM
Support
:3
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waifupillow is not online. waifupillow
Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Total Posts: 3758
05 Jan 2015 09:06 PM
it was interesting because you'd think with a leader based leader and a development based leader it'd create the perfect situation

but sadly thats not how people work
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xMaleden is not online. xMaleden
Joined: 22 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 2542
05 Jan 2015 09:06 PM
With 2 there's typically always a power imbalance.

With 3, that gets more easily resolved.
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LordLancer is online. LordLancer
Joined: 24 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 12009
05 Jan 2015 09:07 PM
ctr <3 http://www.roblox.com/APN-shirt-item?id=54671400
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drlone is not online. drlone
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 4467
05 Jan 2015 09:08 PM
Hey Lilly-chan
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Crakkitty is not online. Crakkitty
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 17408
05 Jan 2015 09:09 PM
"it was interesting because you'd think with a leader based leader and a development based leader it'd create the perfect situation"

Yea, in theory, it should work great, but the conflicting interests ultimately strain things. ;c

"With 2 there's typically always a power imbalance.

With 3, that gets more easily resolved."

You'd think so, but in my opinion, three people split the decision making too much. With a joint-power relationship, you must maintain communication, and with three people, it's likely that one person will be occasionally excluded from some decisions. If you're going to keep communication steady with three people who hold next to equal power, furthermore, it's going to take longer to get information across and whatnot. Generally these joint-relationships only work with 2 people for this reason. If there's more than that, it's normally just a close 3rd person who isn't truly in the limelight.
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drlone is not online. drlone
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 4467
05 Jan 2015 09:10 PM
3 is a company.
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Osyris is not online. Osyris
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Total Posts: 4321
05 Jan 2015 09:11 PM
Interesting. Since I acquired Frigid it has been lead this way between Indistinct and I.

We'll see how it goes. (Pretty well so far)
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NerdFest is not online. NerdFest
Joined: 18 May 2014
Total Posts: 2282
05 Jan 2015 09:11 PM
"3 is a company."

actually, a company in the military consists of 80-250 people.
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Crakkitty is not online. Crakkitty
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 17408
05 Jan 2015 09:12 PM
I also really don't think it's possible to equally split leadership in three ways. In the two-way relationship, the reason why it works is generally because both leaders have equal popularity in the clan. Having a three+ relationship makes it look more like the others are more minor in decision making, making most of the power divert to the leader directly.

~am a cat meow~
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Textorial is not online. Textorial
Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 5341
05 Jan 2015 09:12 PM
Speaking of frigid what happened to arke?
._.
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Crakkitty is not online. Crakkitty
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 17408
05 Jan 2015 09:14 PM
'Interesting. Since I acquired Frigid it has been lead this way between Indistinct and I.

We'll see how it goes. (Pretty well so far)'

Keep up communication and make sure you guys are on the same page when it comes to decision making. When there are dependencies, sort them out logically and figure out which solution is the best. If something is troubling either of you, make sure that both of you know when to bring it out so that problems can be resolved from the get-go. I don't know much about you, but from my relationship with Indistinct, he's a really swell guy and I'm sure that you guys are working well together.



~am a cat meow~
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Osyris is not online. Osyris
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Total Posts: 4321
05 Jan 2015 09:14 PM
Arke sufffered a similar fate to CONEX. Unclear went off to make games.
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Crakkitty is not online. Crakkitty
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 17408
05 Jan 2015 09:17 PM
Yea, although Arke was mainly Unclear's thing. It didn't have anyone to fallback on with him gone. I'm sure Unclear would have given it to his second in command, but the problem was that the clan was 100% based on him and his development. It's really dangerous to do that, imo, unless you're sure that you can take the workload. If you can't, well, you have an Arke happen where you just get bored/lazy and the clan falls apart.

~am a cat meow~
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campy is not online. campy
Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Total Posts: 24127
05 Jan 2015 09:18 PM
you should lead a clan
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drlone is not online. drlone
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 4467
05 Jan 2015 09:20 PM
#Crak4LeaderofAClan2k15
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Crakkitty is not online. Crakkitty
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 17408
05 Jan 2015 09:22 PM
As far as myself leading a clan, I really don't have an interest to do much. I'm in college at an Ivy League and I'm almost 100% sure that my academics would come in the way of leading a clan. On top of that, I really don't feel like I have the inner-drive to maintain a powerful leadership role as I believe most clan leaders should have. I'd likely get lazy and not want to do much, and quite frankly, I'd hate to disappoint members who want a fulfilling clan experience.

~am a cat meow~
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Basketor is not online. Basketor
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 55543
05 Jan 2015 09:23 PM
what school u go to
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