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Re: Doesn't a finely-tuned universe DISPROVE God's existence?

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AtheistWithAFedora is not online. AtheistWithAFedora
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 643
23 Dec 2014 08:52 PM
[ Content Deleted ]
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TheIberianClock is not online. TheIberianClock
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 14338
23 Dec 2014 08:53 PM
checkeh ur privilog
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lVlORIS is not online. lVlORIS
Joined: 06 May 2014
Total Posts: 7982
23 Dec 2014 08:54 PM
Your point makes sense by not making sense whatsoever. Santa himself is on the naughty list for giving toys to children indiscriminately, never the mind that he's morally good for giving to the needy.
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TheEmperorOfTheOcean is not online. TheEmperorOfTheOcean
Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Total Posts: 5832
23 Dec 2014 08:54 PM
ya chehk uhr priovlege op
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chocolategorillalt is not online. chocolategorillalt
Joined: 26 Jun 2013
Total Posts: 2729
23 Dec 2014 08:55 PM
maybe God wanted order?

...just like 7th grade
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lVlORIS is not online. lVlORIS
Joined: 06 May 2014
Total Posts: 7982
23 Dec 2014 08:55 PM
>has to finely tune

>>created it finely tuned to begin with

I still can't quite wrap my mind around what you're saying.
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NarutosRasengan1 is not online. NarutosRasengan1
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Total Posts: 15727
23 Dec 2014 09:00 PM
You are REALLY trying to force it aren't you


"The Sauza so malo...", and then she said "You need to grow up."
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AtheistWithAFedora is not online. AtheistWithAFedora
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 643
23 Dec 2014 09:03 PM
@lVlORIS

Imagine if I wanted to create a garden.
Well, I'd need dirt, seeds, water, and sunlight.

Why? Because plant life needs this stuff to survive.

Now, imagine if the plants were sentient. When they grew up, they'd look back and say, "Hey! I need dirt, seeds, water, and sunlight! And this universe gives me exactly that, this universe is fine-tuned for me!"

But, why is it that the universe is fine-tuned for the plants in my gardin?
Because I knew what plants required, and so I chose that for the plants.

However, if I was all-powerful, I could grow plants without dirt, seeds, water, and sunlight. I could just snap my fingers and make plants that need nothing to survive.

The very reason I must fine-tune my garden for plant-life is because I am bound by the laws of nature.

If I was not bound by the laws of nature, I wouldn't need to fine-tune my garden to support plant life.
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AtheistWithAFedora is not online. AtheistWithAFedora
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 643
23 Dec 2014 09:04 PM
@Naruto

No, I'm not trying to "force" anything.
The conclusion that fine tuning = God is utterly nonsensical and fallacious.
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Herkamuhr is not online. Herkamuhr
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2893
23 Dec 2014 09:05 PM
God isn't a person... It's a force.
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lVlORIS is not online. lVlORIS
Joined: 06 May 2014
Total Posts: 7982
23 Dec 2014 09:08 PM
"You are REALLY trying to force it aren't you"

Oh definitely.

"Imagine if I wanted to create a garden.
Well, I'd need dirt, seeds, water, and sunlight.

Why? Because plant life needs this stuff to survive.

Now, imagine if the plants were sentient. When they grew up, they'd look back and say, "Hey! I need dirt, seeds, water, and sunlight! And this universe gives me exactly that, this universe is fine-tuned for me!"

You do realize that all the laws of nature were created by humans to explain the phenomena of natural life? Ergo, whether there are rules to this game or not, we'll never know, because we made them all up.


"But, why is it that the universe is fine-tuned for the plants in my gardin?
Because I knew what plants required, and so I chose that for the plants.

However, if I was all-powerful, I could grow plants without dirt, seeds, water, and sunlight. I could just snap my fingers and make plants that need nothing to survive.

The very reason I must fine-tune my garden for plant-life is because I am bound by the laws of nature.

If I was not bound by the laws of nature, I wouldn't need to fine-tune my garden to support plant life."


Probably because he wanted humans to be able to grow food. =B
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NarutosRasengan1 is not online. NarutosRasengan1
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Total Posts: 15727
23 Dec 2014 09:09 PM
"No, I'm not trying to "force" anything.
The conclusion that fine tuning = God is utterly nonsensical and fallacious."

You're trying to force a religious debate, the likes of which was witnessed earlier and honestly does not need to be revisited


"The Sauza so malo...", and then she said "You need to grow up."
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myactiveplayingalt is not online. myactiveplayingalt
Joined: 28 Nov 2014
Total Posts: 2330
23 Dec 2014 09:09 PM
athiest your beliefs are ok, and are as well yours to keep. im not sure that attempting to convert anyone will solve anything except for if you succeed the world will be a little more of how you see fit.
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AtheistWithAFedora is not online. AtheistWithAFedora
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 643
23 Dec 2014 09:09 PM
@lVlORIS

Please don't spam. I'm trying to have a serious philosophical discussion.
If you just want to jest, please go elsewhere.
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NarutosRasengan1 is not online. NarutosRasengan1
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Total Posts: 15727
23 Dec 2014 09:13 PM
"Please don't spam. I'm trying to have a serious philosophical discussion."

It's going to go south extremely fast so it's better off not being touched upon since either one side or the other will resort in insults


"The Sauza so malo...", and then she said "You need to grow up."
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lVlORIS is not online. lVlORIS
Joined: 06 May 2014
Total Posts: 7982
23 Dec 2014 09:18 PM
"Please don't spam. I'm trying to have a serious philosophical discussion.
If you just want to jest, please go elsewhere."

I wasn't spamming, I was replying. Here, if you didn't read it, I will reply with my points in response:

1st response:

You do realize that all the laws of nature were created by humans to explain the phenomena of natural life? Ergo, whether there are rules to this game or not, we'll never know, because we made them all up.

2nd response:

Probably because he wanted humans to be able to grow food. =B
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killerhunter696 is not online. killerhunter696
Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Total Posts: 1166
23 Dec 2014 09:21 PM
Check the privilege.

I can't begin to describe how much a hot shovel hitting your face would please me at the moment.
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AtheistWithAFedora is not online. AtheistWithAFedora
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 643
23 Dec 2014 09:29 PM
@lVlORIS

I'm going to ignore your jest and just reply to your somewhat serious argument.

>"You do realize that all the laws of nature were created by humans to explain the phenomena of natural life? Ergo, whether there are rules to this game or not, we'll never know, because we made them all up."

Just because we made up the rules doesn't mean the rules don't exist.
Imagine if you went to a computer and saw that it was spitting out these numbers:

30... 36... 42... 48... 54... 60... 66.. 72... 78... 84... 90...

After a while, you may decide to describe this pattern as

nᵢ = nᵢ₋₁ + 6

So, this rule describes the pattern. Any number in the sequence is equal to the number before it plus 6.

This rule describes how the system operates.
However, the very fact that you can describe the system with a rule must mean there is something that actually governs it.

In this case, it would be the computer program that is set up to may run a piece of code like

for (var i=30; i<=infinity; i += 6) console.log(i);

Yes, the laws we create DESCRIBE the system and don't PRESCRIBE the system like computer code can. But the very fact that there are rules that create order demonstrates that the system IS orderly and that there ARE rules prescribing he system, we just don't know what they are, so we DESCRIBE the system.

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MadSanity is not online. MadSanity
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 41506
23 Dec 2014 09:34 PM
"because he wanted humans to grow food"

just hoppin in here but, we weren't always growing food

we hunted and survived long before agriculture became widespread

just saying




munchkin
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carson3003 is not online. carson3003
Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 2203
23 Dec 2014 09:36 PM
I feel like the only person who understood what this post meant
And I 75% agree with OP

Get in the car, son!
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GoshiDoll is not online. GoshiDoll
Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Total Posts: 32006
23 Dec 2014 09:37 PM
tbh

I love Weasel


Warning: Dates in calendar are closer then they appear.
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lVlORIS is not online. lVlORIS
Joined: 06 May 2014
Total Posts: 7982
23 Dec 2014 09:48 PM
God, AndroidWeasel, I love how you always weasel your way through any point you make with algebraic equations and utter nonsense. And then you go and make troll posts like that one yesterday about burning Christians. lmao
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AtheistWithAFedora is not online. AtheistWithAFedora
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 643
23 Dec 2014 09:57 PM
>"God, AndroidWeasel, I love how you always weasel your way through any point you make with algebraic equations and utter nonsense."

Ah, you know you've won an argument when the other person resorts to insults without even bothering to explain why your argument's wrong.

If you don't understand something, ask me to elaborate, and then I could explain it better.

But to be honest, I don't even think you don't undersatnd it. You just know you've lost, and rather than admit it, you just resort to personal attacks.

Whatever. I knew I shouldn't have replied to you in the first place.
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lVlORIS is not online. lVlORIS
Joined: 06 May 2014
Total Posts: 7982
23 Dec 2014 09:59 PM
You're so full of hot air I could stick you in my vent and save on my heating bills.
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crs100 is not online. crs100
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Total Posts: 12342
23 Dec 2014 10:03 PM
what was this
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