Mobard
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| Joined: 15 Jan 2011 |
| Total Posts: 1541 |
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| 25 Sep 2014 07:32 PM |
Things to know about oggs:
-They are a type of audio -They take up less space than MP3s, WAVs, and have no quality deterioration. -FMOD, the sound tools used by Roblox, already supports ogg. -Oggs are free to use.
And the most important of all:
-Unlike MP3s, they do not add empty space to the beginning and end of files, allowing for what is known as a Loop.
Implementing Ogg files will take minimal work, a simple two-step process: 1: Make sure audio moderators are using a version of Winamp that can play ogg files, or Audacity. 2: Allow ogg files through the filter. |
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MrPru
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| Joined: 21 Jan 2012 |
| Total Posts: 440 |
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| 27 Sep 2014 09:51 AM |
Did you just copy and paste your group's message? Really?
Also, why add this? I don't see much use out of this.
-Numbers |
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AmiracIe
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| Joined: 13 Feb 2014 |
| Total Posts: 1362 |
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| 27 Sep 2014 05:51 PM |
| Did you read it at all? Gosh. |
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AxeOfMen
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| Joined: 14 Dec 2011 |
| Total Posts: 196 |
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| 30 Sep 2014 10:02 AM |
Ogg files solve a specific problem that is inherent to the mp3 file format: Looping.
As described in the original post, mp3 files cannot be properly looped.
No one here is advocating ogg files merely for the sake of diversity or audio quality superiority, but to solve a legitimate problem with the limitations imposed by the mp3 file format. |
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| 30 Sep 2014 11:00 AM |
"-They are a type of audio"
MP3 is an audio file, Ogg is a container file. The difference? With Ogg, you can put in various image types, text.
"-They take up less space than MP3s, WAVs, and have no quality deterioration."
MP3 is a lossy compression, so the ending argument is comparing apples-to-apples. However, the rest is true.
"-Oggs are free to use."
Not all, they said you can use the .ogg format for both commercial and non-commercial.
"Ogg files solve a specific problem that is inherent to the mp3 file format: Looping.
As described in the original post, mp3 files cannot be properly looped."
This is not entirely true, it's just harder to program them to do so. Most of the time people do some kind of fade-in and fade-out technique. |
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AxeOfMen
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| Joined: 14 Dec 2011 |
| Total Posts: 196 |
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| 30 Sep 2014 03:58 PM |
"MP3 is a lossy compression, so the ending argument is comparing apples-to-apples. However, the rest is true."
I'm guessing you mean to say "apples-to-oranges" meaning that he isn't comparing two comparable things, but from the vorbis FAQ: "Lossy compression algorithms discard data in order to compress it better than would normally be possible. Examples include JPEG, Vorbis, and MP3 compression." Thus we see that both mp3 and ogg vorbis are lossy compressions.
"Not all, they said you can use the .ogg format for both commercial and non-commercial."
I'm unsure the point you are trying to make with that statement, but again, from the vorbis FAQ: "Ogg Vorbis is a new audio compression format. It is roughly comparable to other formats used to store and play digital music, such as MP3, VQF, AAC, and other digital audio formats. It is different from these other formats because it is completely free, open, and unpatented."
If you are saying that you can't take a copyrighted song, put it in ogg vorbis format and somehow circumvent copyright law, I agree. But that isn't what Mobard meant by saying they are free. He meant what is stated in the FAQ, namely that there are no fees or licensing costs regarding the use of the ogg vorbis compression technology.
"This is not entirely true, it's just harder to program them to do so. Most of the time people do some kind of fade-in and fade-out technique."
This statement does not in any way invalidate the statement that mp3 files cannot be properly looped. MP3s suffer from a technological failing in that they add silence to the beginning and end of an audio file. This results in a looped audio file having an audio gap. That gap is almost certainly undesirable in the majority of cases. Since the author of the audio file did not introduce that gap, it is unlikely the author desires that gap. |
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| 30 Sep 2014 04:57 PM |
"This statement does not in any way invalidate the statement that mp3 files cannot be properly looped. MP3s suffer from a technological failing in that they add silence to the beginning and end of an audio file. This results in a looped audio file having an audio gap. That gap is almost certainly undesirable in the majority of cases. Since the author of the audio file did not introduce that gap, it is unlikely the author desires that gap."
You can get around things as those, in programming though, if you know the song length, and you know the gap, length - gap = actual song length. The problem is that Roblox's API has no way of keeping track of what frame it is.
"I'm guessing you mean to say "apples-to-oranges" meaning that he isn't comparing two comparable things, but from the vorbis FAQ: "Lossy compression algorithms discard data in order to compress it better than would normally be possible. Examples include JPEG, Vorbis, and MP3 compression." Thus we see that both mp3 and ogg vorbis are lossy compressions."
No, I'm saying that they're apples-to-apples, which is the opposite of as you said, "apples-to-oranges". Since they are both lossy compression formats, you're going to have some quality deterioration.
"I'm unsure the point you are trying to make with that statement, but again, from the vorbis FAQ: "Ogg Vorbis is a new audio compression format. It is roughly comparable to other formats used to store and play digital music, such as MP3, VQF, AAC, and other digital audio formats. It is different from these other formats because it is completely free, open, and unpatented."
If you are saying that you can't take a copyrighted song, put it in ogg vorbis format and somehow circumvent copyright law, I agree. But that isn't what Mobard meant by saying they are free. He meant what is stated in the FAQ, namely that there are no fees or licensing costs regarding the use of the ogg vorbis compression technology."
Being free and being free to use are two different things, and he should have said it as such, but even with that said, not all oggs are free, therefor his statement/argument was wrong.
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AxeOfMen
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| Joined: 14 Dec 2011 |
| Total Posts: 196 |
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| 30 Sep 2014 05:35 PM |
"The problem is that Roblox's API has no way of keeping track of what frame it is." Given that this is a ROBLOX forum and the suggestion regards a feature request for the ROBLOX system, it is irrelevant that those things can be done outside of the ROBLOX environment. We're discussing what is possible within ROBLOX. Explicitly stating such is redundant.
"You're going to have some quality deterioration." Agreed
"not all oggs are free" Agreed |
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| 30 Sep 2014 08:39 PM |
"Given that this is a ROBLOX forum and the suggestion regards a feature request for the ROBLOX system, it is irrelevant that those things can be done outside of the ROBLOX environment. We're discussing what is possible within ROBLOX. Explicitly stating such is redundant."
No, it's not redundant, because it wouldn't be a hard thing to implement. |
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AxeOfMen
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| Joined: 14 Dec 2011 |
| Total Posts: 196 |
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| 01 Oct 2014 12:08 AM |
"No, it's not redundant, because it wouldn't be a hard thing to implement."
It is redundant to say "IN ROBLOX it is impossible to loop files properly using mp3s" because it is taken for granted that we're talking about what ROBLOX is capable of. What wouldn't be hard to implement? Keeping track of the frame? Whether that is hard for ROBLOX to implement or not is beside the point. The point here is that ogg vorbis doesn't suffer from the problem afflicting mp3s and allowing ogg vorbis would solve an actual problem. Not to mention that it would be trivial to permit. |
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| 01 Oct 2014 04:57 AM |
| would support if my copy of fl studio exported .ogg correctly lol |
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| 01 Oct 2014 05:57 PM |
"It is redundant to say "IN ROBLOX it is impossible to loop files properly using mp3s" because it is taken for granted that we're talking about what ROBLOX is capable of. What wouldn't be hard to implement? Keeping track of the frame? Whether that is hard for ROBLOX to implement or not is beside the point. The point here is that ogg vorbis doesn't suffer from the problem afflicting mp3s and allowing ogg vorbis would solve an actual problem. Not to mention that it would be trivial to permit."
As I said, MP3 files don't suffer from being loopless. If they provided a way of keeping track of time, the simple script would be something along these lines
local songTimeInSeconds = 500; -- Cause why not. local song = someAudio;
function loopSong() if song.currentFrame >= songTimeInSeconds then song.currentFrame = 0; -- or whatever you want it to start at. end end
song.currentFrame.Changed:connect(loopSong); |
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Mobard
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| Joined: 15 Jan 2011 |
| Total Posts: 1541 |
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| 01 Oct 2014 07:02 PM |
| DerProgrammierer, you're not being helpful, but feel free to keep posting. Go on. You're only bumping our thread, anyway. Thank you for that. |
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| 01 Oct 2014 07:07 PM |
"With Ogg, you can put in various image types, text"
you dont know anything about ogg do you? |
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| 01 Oct 2014 09:37 PM |
"you dont know anything about ogg do you?"
I clearly know more about it than you do. Even Wikipedia says it's "container" format. Also, their FAQ says this:
"Can I bundle Vorbis and another media type (like text lyrics or pictures) in the same file?
Yes. The Ogg container format was designed to allow different media types to be multiplexed together; Theora will be mixed with Vorbis audio in an Ogg container to encode movies.
In addition, FLAC can be embedded in Ogg and some preliminary work has been done to put MNG and MIDI content into Ogg files as well.Experimental code is available in the ogg-tools module in the Xiph.org CVS repository. Programmers working on such extensions can discuss issues and questions on the vorbis-dev mailing list."
"DerProgrammierer, you're not being helpful, but feel free to keep posting. Go on. You're only bumping our thread, anyway. Thank you for that."
Never said I was against the idea. Your arguments just aren't that great.
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AxeOfMen
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| Joined: 14 Dec 2011 |
| Total Posts: 196 |
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| 01 Oct 2014 10:39 PM |
"As I said, MP3 files don't suffer from being loopless. If they provided a way of keeping track of time, the simple script would be something along these lines"
I don't understand what you are trying to demonstrate. Are you trying to demonstrate that the statement "MP3 files cannot be properly looped" is false? Certainly you realize that the solution you propose is not possible in ROBLOX. Since we are discussing the ROBLOX platform, being able to do something in some other environment is irrelevant. |
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AX94
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| Joined: 09 Aug 2011 |
| Total Posts: 7390 |
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| 01 Oct 2014 10:49 PM |
The reason I support is because the sound files that Roblox uses for the collision sounds (Grass, plastic, metal, etc) located in Roblox's AppData file are all .ogg files. I mean, why shouldn't we be able to upload .ogg files if Roblox already has support for them?
All in all, you're just another brick in the wall. |
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| 01 Oct 2014 11:25 PM |
"I don't understand what you are trying to demonstrate. Are you trying to demonstrate that the statement "MP3 files cannot be properly looped" is false?"
Yes.
" Certainly you realize that the solution you propose is not possible in ROBLOX. Since we are discussing the ROBLOX platform, being able to do something in some other environment is irrelevant."
It's not possible, because they haven't added it, correct. If they added it, would I be wrong? No. Roblox's API is one of the only APIs in the world that has audio and cannot keep track of how long a song has been playing, that's kind of sad. |
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AxeOfMen
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| Joined: 14 Dec 2011 |
| Total Posts: 196 |
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| 02 Oct 2014 08:16 AM |
| I reiterate: Since we are discussing the ROBLOX platform, being able to do something in some other environment is irrelevant. |
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AxeOfMen
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| Joined: 14 Dec 2011 |
| Total Posts: 196 |
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| 02 Oct 2014 08:17 AM |
| As is your hypothetical "If they added it" |
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| 02 Oct 2014 06:35 PM |
"I reiterate: Since we are discussing the ROBLOX platform, being able to do something in some other environment is irrelevant."
Roblox's platform already has the functionality, their API does not. They made their game using C++ and implemented a scripting language to run on top of that. Since all the behind scenes in Roblox is coded in C++, all they need to do is incorporate it into their API. |
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Bergan
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| Joined: 23 Nov 2007 |
| Total Posts: 4942 |
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| 02 Oct 2014 07:04 PM |
| Interesting. Sounds good to me. |
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AxeOfMen
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| Joined: 14 Dec 2011 |
| Total Posts: 196 |
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| 02 Oct 2014 11:05 PM |
"all they need to do is incorporate it into their API."
Irrelevant. Hypothesizing that ROBLOX will incorporate it is irrelevant. |
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