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Re: GMOs won't go away, and here's why.

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AtheistWithAFedora is not online. AtheistWithAFedora
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 643
18 Sep 2014 05:45 PM
Conspiracy theorists like to believe everyone is out to get them. Especially creationists who think the whole scientific community is run by profit and there's no honesty in there at all.

But, obviously, this isn't true. There's sometimes malpractice, but all studies are expected to be published in a scientific journal where they are peer-reviewed and either made public, or public with a cost (pay-per-view).

The reason you hear so much about how GMOs are going to kill you and why no one's doing anything about it is because, the truth is, the media likes to lie to you. Really, it's true. There really isn't any major concern for any GMOs on the market and human health, because they've all been quite thoroughly tested and had their results published and reviewed by multiple sources.

For example, one study commonly cited by anti-GMO activists is called "Long-term toxicity of a Roundup herbicide and a Roundup-tolerant genetically modified maize".

The problem with this study is it's just... nonsensical.
Seriously, read it and try to make sense of it.

One stupid issue with the paper's "results" that "females developed large mammary tumors more frequently and before controls...males presented up to four times more large palpable tumors starting 600 days earlier than in the control group, in which only one tumor was noted."

This is what anti-GMO people usually cite. It basically says, the female mice got tumors and the males got more tumors. The anti-GMO people say, "see! it proves it gives us cancer!"

The problem with this is,

1. They used Sprague-Dawley rats. Just Google them. They're freaking known for spontaneously growing tumors. It even says on the Wikipedia page about them.

2. The sample size is absurdly tiny, only 20 rats per group. That's too small to actually confirm any trend. Things like tumors differ quite a bit in mice, so it's likely to see some sort of "correlation" with such a tiny sample size.

3. They never make a comprehensive report of the amount of rats who die, which kind of defeats the purpose of this study.

One hilarious thing about this paper is the graph. Like I said, this paper is nonsensical. The graphs are terribly made and hard to read, but if you actually try to read them, they're pretty funny. One of them even showed that the male rats who drank Round-up herbicide lived longer than the rats that drank water.

So, if you're a guy, according to this study, drinking Roundup herbicide will make you live longer.

Then they even include pictures of the rats when they're nearly all tumor.
This is just cruel and inhumane, and there's no reason to even share pictures of them because that provides no scientific usefulness.

It seems like this paper is just meant to elicit an emotional response and supposed to be nonsensical so no one really reads it.


Another commonly cited study by anti-GMO activists is "A Comparison of the Effects of Three GM Corn Varieties on Mammalian Health". This study, at least, isn't quite as absurd as the last. But the sample size is still rather small and only concludes that there might be an adverse effect, but hardly comes to proving it.

In fact, the maize they tested is NK 603, MON 810, and MON 863. I'd recommend looking up the paper "Opinion of the Scientific Panel on Genetically Modified Organisms on an application (Reference EFSA-GMO-BE-2004-07) for the placing on the market of insect-protected glyphosate-tolerant genetically modified maize
MON863 x MON810 x NK603, for food and feed uses, and import and processing under Regulation (EC) No 1829/2003 from Monsanto"... long title, I know. But it's a paper written about the European Food Safety Authority's scientific panel's views on these GMOs. The paper discusses tests they used for each one and their results, and for every one they concluded they were safe and showed no adverse effects.

So, essentially, trusted such a crap study over EFSA's study is rather ridiculous. This also exemplifies the fact that the scientific community IS testing GMOs and they are making sure they're safe before giving them to people.

It's also important to note that not all GMOs are the same and they all have different intentions, so concluding from any paper that "all GMOs are evil" is simply nonsensical. All GMOs must be evaluated individually.

Even the second anti-GMO paper I cited even mentions this. It blatantly says "Patho-physiological profiles are unique for each GM crop/food, underlining the necessity for a case-by-case evaluation of their safety, as is largely admitted and agreed by regulators. It is not possible to make comments concerning any general, similar subchronic toxic effect for all GM foods."

Yet, anti-GMO activists still use this paper to attack GMOs, despite the fact that this paper even admits that it does not destroy GMOs. The most it claims is that they may have found an indication that these GMOs are harmful. But, like I said, their sample size is also terribly small and EFSA's panel found completely different results.







So, in summary: The internet and TV are lying to you. There isn't super poisonous and cancerous GMOs in grocery stores. GMOs are properly tested before the public can consume them. All GMOs have to be evaluated individually and cannot be generalized. Even if one GMO that got through the system was proven to be bad, that doesn't discredit the process of genetic modification in the slightest.

That is all.
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Advertence is not online. Advertence
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1508
18 Sep 2014 05:47 PM
"lets just blame conspiracy theorists on the creationsits!"

Not all Creationists are Conspiracy theorists. I know plenty of Atheists who are creationists.

'its gods fault for the idiocy of people'

No it's actually just a malfunction in the human brain which causes idiocy.

If your going to write a long argument (Which was good by the way), don't start off biased in the beginning.
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Calgacos is online. Calgacos
Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Total Posts: 684
18 Sep 2014 05:52 PM
You have to be a idiot to think that Western science and academia isn't extremely politicized. I don't care about all your stupid atheist crap and whatever a creationist is but I am just saying it is completely obvious to anyone with a brain that most Western scholars and scientists are agenda driven liars and charlatans.
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zadfad is not online. zadfad
Joined: 28 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 7953
18 Sep 2014 05:53 PM
I really hate what monsanto is doing. Sueing farmers and throwing them on the street just because one of their "patented" seeds that are immune to some diesease, just because one of the pollens from the patented plant fertalizes a normal one. so stupid.
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AtheistWithAFedora is not online. AtheistWithAFedora
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 643
18 Sep 2014 05:54 PM
>""lets just blame conspiracy theorists on the creationsits!""

Pathetically disgusting straw man argument that is completely irrelevant from the main idea of my post. Your reply is solely meant to be contentious and not actually provide anything useful to discuss.

For this, I am only granting you one reply, and this is it. I will not be replying to you any further afterwards.

>"Not all Creationists are Conspiracy theorists. I know plenty of Atheists who are creationists."

Creationism is, by definition, a conspiracy theory. Because you have to believe that the entire scientific community is in conspiracy against you. Creationism is a direct contradiction to evolution theory, which the entirety of the scientific community agree upon. In order to be a creationist, you have to believe the entire scientific community is simply lying.

>"'its gods fault for the idiocy of people'"

I think this is supposed to be a straw man against me but I never said anything that even came as close to this. So I really have no clue how to respond. It's so irrelevant to anything I ever said that I'm almost thinking it was just a typo.

>"No it's actually just a malfunction in the human brain which causes idiocy."

Again, like I said before... absurdly irrelevant...

>"If your going to write a long argument (Which was good by the way), don't start off biased in the beginning."

Nothing is bias about what I said. Creationism is a conspiracy theory by its very nature. All studies have repeatedly demonstrated that the more conservative a person is, the more paranoid they are and likely to believe in conspiracy theories. Creationists are as conservative as you can get, and I've yet to meet a single one in my life who also didn't have other conspiracy theories they believed in.



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Plexahedron is not online. Plexahedron
Joined: 22 Jul 2013
Total Posts: 9609
18 Sep 2014 05:55 PM
"scientific community is run by profit and there's no honesty in there at all."
Because they get the money to run their projects from the money trees they have grown.
Also, you think about religion more then religious people do. It's kinda sad, really.
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AtheistWithAFedora is not online. AtheistWithAFedora
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 643
18 Sep 2014 05:56 PM
>"You have to be a idiot to think that Western science and academia isn't extremely politicized."

Evidence?

>"I don't care about all your stupid atheist crap and whatever a creationist is but I am just saying it is completely obvious to anyone with a brain that most Western scholars and scientists are agenda driven liars and charlatans."

Evidence?

You can't just say, "I'm right and you're an idiot if you don't agree."
You need evidence. Intuition is the least reliable source of information on the planet.
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lnplodedalt is not online. lnplodedalt
Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Total Posts: 12637
18 Sep 2014 06:01 PM
theres already a cure for cancer and big pharm is holding it back from the world to profit off more expensive kinds of treatments
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Advertence is not online. Advertence
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1508
18 Sep 2014 06:02 PM

>"Pathetically disgusting straw man argument that is completely irrelevant from the main idea of my post. Your reply is solely meant to be contentious and not actually provide anything useful to discuss.

For this, I am only granting you one reply, and this is it. I will not be replying to you any further afterwards."

I was pointing out your fallacy in the beginning of your speech, the only comment I actually made on your speech about the GMO was that it was good. Don't blame the lack of trust in GMO's on religion, that in of itself is a petty excuse.


>"Creationism is, by definition, a conspiracy theory. Because you have to believe that the entire scientific community is in conspiracy against you. Creationism is a direct contradiction to evolution theory, which the entirety of the scientific community agree upon. In order to be a creationist, you have to believe the entire scientific community is simply lying."

Creationism is a Religion, it's a belief system. Arguments can be made that Conspiracy theories are belief systems as well, but they are not as well organized as Religion is.


>"I think this is supposed to be a straw man against me but I never said anything that even came as close to this. So I really have no clue how to respond. It's so irrelevant to anything I ever said that I'm almost thinking it was just a typo."

You were basically implying that conspiracy theorists are a direct result of religion. Which is completely biased.



>"If your going to write a long argument (Which was good by the way), don't start off biased in the beginning."

>"Nothing is bias about what I said. Creationism is a conspiracy theory by its very nature. All studies have repeatedly demonstrated that the more conservative a person is, the more paranoid they are and likely to believe in conspiracy theories. Creationists are as conservative as you can get, and I've yet to meet a single one in my life who also didn't have other conspiracy theories they believed in. "

Links to the studies about conservative paranoia, seems interesting.

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Calgacos is online. Calgacos
Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Total Posts: 684
18 Sep 2014 06:12 PM
"Evidence?

You can't just say, "I'm right and you're an idiot if you don't agree."
You need evidence. Intuition is the least reliable source of information on the planet."
I was actually just waiting for you to ask for evidence. Well here is example number one

The Ivory Bangle Lady

Some people did a scientific test on a skull from a burial in York where they examine the tooth enamel to determine where they are from. According to the test she was from North Africa. However despite this only telling us the subject was raised in North Africa they came to the conclusion that she was a North African. Not only that it was proclaimed that she was black and portrayed as a negroid. This is ridiculous in that not only is here skull clearly Caucasoid but indigenous North Africans are not even black. The study was completely agenda driven as can be shown from this quote by the authors "The experts believe these factors provided reasons for potential immigration to the area and for the foundation of a multi-cultural community."
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AtheistWithAFedora is not online. AtheistWithAFedora
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 643
18 Sep 2014 06:28 PM
@Calgacos

Could you provide me with a source? I've found some info on this "ivory bangle lady" but nothing supporting the idea of it being a hoax.

According to Yorkshire's museum, she was not African but mix-raced.
They didn't just guess about her race. Her skull structure is akin to someone of North African descent and bone studies show she was brought up in a warmer climate than of York.

She may have been likely raised Africa, but that's not why they concluded that she has African ancestry. They concluded this from analyses on the skull shape.

She is mix-raced, which they all agree.
And her corpse was not even that old. It only goes back to the Roman times. Africa is not that much different today. It was full of black and mix-raced people at that time as it is now.

I've found nothing suggesting it is "caucasoid".

You seem to be claiming that their motivation for "lying" is because they want to encourage multiculturalism? How does this even make sense?

People don't put things in museums without some actual evidence. I can guarantee you that multiple people looked at this, not just a couple.

And I can't find any resources supporting the idea of it being a hoax.
Give me an article title or something.
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Scyblocks is not online. Scyblocks
Joined: 24 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 26732
18 Sep 2014 07:00 PM
China and Europe have already banned them.

Your argument is invalid.
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Neraj1 is not online. Neraj1
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Total Posts: 2017
18 Sep 2014 07:05 PM
"I know plenty of Atheists who are creationists."

Are you some kind of stupid boy?
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AtheistWithAFedora is not online. AtheistWithAFedora
Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Total Posts: 643
18 Sep 2014 07:06 PM
>"China and Europe have already banned them."

China is kind of dumb, but bringing up Europe is a good point.
Do you actually know much about this to discuss it?
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Scyblocks is not online. Scyblocks
Joined: 24 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 26732
18 Sep 2014 07:16 PM
I know that these GMO crops are highly resistant to normal diseases but vulnerable

to antibiotic resistant 'superbugs' plus the worse problem which is they can only

grow one season with the same seeds. Farmers for millennia reuse seeds to save money

and if their particular variety grows well in a given climate its helpful as well.


And lastly the GMO crops are particularly fake in terms of flavor and size.

Heirloom varieties are %150 superior in flavor and quality.


TL;DR Farming is fine, fringe science car stay the heck out of it.
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mayor22 is not online. mayor22
Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Total Posts: 950
18 Sep 2014 08:24 PM
Oh no.
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Scyblocks is not online. Scyblocks
Joined: 24 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 26732
19 Sep 2014 01:15 PM
Rekt.
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