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Re: ROBLOX Clan Points replacement + more.

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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 6562
22 Aug 2014 01:09 PM
I initially sent this in an e-mail to info@ROBLOX and now I'm posting it here.

Dear ROBLOX (potentially the people who made the clan points system),


(warning: This email implies that you've been watching too much of the "Roblox clan league" which has nothing to do with clans as a whole instead of looking at how clans work and don't know how the community set up it's version of clans.)

Hi, I've been a leader of a clan (by community definition) and been in many clans (by community definition) and I'm happy that you're making updates to groups and clans (by community definition)! However, I am disappointed at the updates themselves.

Your probably wondering when I'm saying whenever I say "clan" I put the phrase "(by community definition)". This is because I am referring to the definition of clans that existed before clan points.

A better explination is that it is a group that has it's own base (not personal server), has active members who go there and interacts with the other clans by this definition on ROBLOX. Great examples are: FEAR, RAT, VAK, TRA.
The furthest this applies to is the nation clans such as [ITA] Italy and the United Kingdom.
We also have our own nicknaming for clans eg: clans with over 20k members are known as superclans. Powerclans are small clans of 200+ members who can take on an defeat a superclan.

Then we have groups of various forms.

VIP groups - these groups dress themselves up as clans but are in fact not clans at all. Good examples are Veloxic empire and Team domino.

regular groups - these are groups used for the default settings for groups. Example: Puppy and kitten lovers.

[NEW] Plrpoints groups - These are groups designed to exploit the player points and group points system to get to top 50 or higher in the leaderboards.

[NEW] Official roblox groups - These groups were made by you guys (EG: knights of redcliff) to obviously try to operate with community clans but have actually done nothing and are now hat and clothing fan groups.

When we heard groups/clans were getting updates this year and one was a ranking system we were really happy. However we are not happy with the one you have provided, clan points.

Clan points is a straight up flawed ranking system. With it, ROBLOX loses it's potential of being the greatest clan system in the world of gaming. I mean seriously, name a game which allows you to build a unique everything.

The reason why it is flawed is simple. It's CONNECTED to player points.
You see, in a clan the members have to go to trainings and raids to earn promotions and progress through the clan. This requires them to be active in the clan. Sure the user can go off and play a game every so often however their loyalty is to the clan. It's "serious business."

With player points integrated with clans via clan points the user has no incentive to go and do ANYTHING for the clan as they would just think "oh, I'm not in my clan's 'Clan' so that means I don't need to do anything." Leading them to just go off and play on front page games doing nothing for the clan. Then when the clan HRs pm them to come to a raid or a training they rage like crazy about all the "spam" they get from the clans because they're too disloyal to go to an event.

This is bad.

The system only benefits the people who don't even care about it. Who is that? The game devs of the front page. This is bad because it ruins the whole clans thing as a whole. It drives activity away from what is supposed to be clans to a bunch of people who don't need it and don't care for it.

Honestly, you do not know how annoying it is to travel to some popular game dev's place and get someone to go to a training.

Again, you're wondering why this is bad? This is bad because the games we have at the moment on the front page provide nothing for the member in terms of "training" the furthest we go with pop games is sword fight on the heights original.
The player points earned that go towards the clan points do not show how good the clan is nor how strong it is. It shows that they're only good at playing popular games and are useless to fight against and also highly inactive.


Overall these are the key bad points of the "clan points" system.

1. It's exploited by game devs who shove their groups into the top 50 where they shouldn't be.
2. It lowers activity massively in clans.
3. Makes the clan look useless at fighting if they only do front page games.
4. People make clan points groups JUST to exploit the system and get to top position.
5. It does not provide an accurate ranking system because the points from the front page games mess up the data.

Okay, I've gone through the bad things about the clans points system. Here are some replacements and improvements and changes I suggest


Firstly. Player points NEED to be separated from groups. as mentioned before the reasons are given.
then replace the system with the following.

Groups can sign up to become a clan for the same amount it does to create that "clan" tab. What this does is that it removes the limits put on the whole clan thing AND allows the "clan" tab to be removed.

With this they are given a default amount of ranking power. Say, 1000 Rank power. This rank power can go down into negatives.

Then allow this to be implemented into bases through a capture system or a KO limit so that the place that the base is in can detect the clan(s) raiding and then once the method of victory is achieved, they increase the points of the victors and lower the points of the losers.
The value of a victory cannot be changed by the clan base owners. the value of a victory at a raid would be 100 power. The power would be split between the number of clans on the enemies list of the defender that raided.

Each clan group will have a tag on it which can be searched for in the search so you can find it. eg: TRA would be The Robloxian Army's tag.
they would also have a thing similar to the "new" and "Limited unique" signs on the shop that says "clan" placed next to their clan logo.

From this another improvement can be made, an actual war system with a proper defeated list and an option to search for clans which are at war.

Two clans: Clan A and clan B.

A declares war on B. B cannot decline the war. the war has been declared as A has added them onto their enemies list therefore A appears on B's enemies list.

The target set is that the clan to get closest to stealing a certain amount of rank power, say 1000, at the end of a chosen period of time wins the war or if a clan steals that amount of power.

A beats B.

Clan B's logo now features on a new tab in the group page "defeated list".

This allows for wars to work properly and have some form of goal AND removes inaccurate defeated lists that are placed on the clan description.

This would also require that the ability to declare other groups as enemies to be a clan only feature.


You're wondering why this cannot be done with group points? I refer you to the issue of the data being messed up by the player points system and exploited by game devs.


The second part is that we now have the "clan" tab from your clan points thing remaining. The best solution would be to make it a divisions/sub-groups tab.

this means groups can merge together and still be able to be seen as separate entities though one being a sub-group. It would also allow for people to make divisions via a "create sub group" tab.


How this would work is like this:

on the profile page of a person, the person owns two groups A and B.

Groups:

[image A][Image B][Image C][Image D][Image E]


He want so merge B into A as it would be easier to manage that way.

He would go:

Group A -> Group A options -> Divisions -> Merge a group

He would then type group B's ID into the box and click merge.

system would then check if the person owned group B if they didn't it wouldn't allow it.

then the "are you sure" message comes up.

It would cost 100 R$ + 25R$ per rank in group B (bar the first three you get when you make a group).
and it would cost the same to De-Merge it.

Then what would happen is


on the owner's profile it would show only:

[Image A][Image C][Image D][Image E]

Then you head to group A's profile page.

click the "sub groups" tab

and Group B's logo would be there.

click that

goes to group B's page and above the clan description it will say:

"This group is a sub group of Group A"

The join button would not be available on group B's page unless you have joined group A.

To make a sub group it would cost 125 R$.

Another issue is the whole uniform thing for groups.

Since the price floor, which IMO I didn't think was needed at all as it didn't solve the copying however you have your own reasons, clan members have been at a loss for how to get a clan uniform since it costs too much. My suggestion to fix this is the following. (only available to clans in the clan idea suggested above.)

On the options page for ranks a new option is available, this one is "create a uniform".

Clan owner pays 25 - 50R$ and makes a uniform. this uniform then comes up on a new settings tab in the group settings page.

From there the owner can select which ranks the uniform applies to. This also means the owner can then upload more uniforms for various ranks.

How will the group access the uniforms? The uniforms will only be available if the person is in the group in the rank specified and will be instantly added to their inventory upon joining/being promoted. they are removed if they leave/exiled or are demoted.

It would also be nice to have an optional system that when a shout come from a clan, you get a message in game like you get one from earning player points.


The reason why I'm contacting you through this about these things
The reason is because when i try to post these in suggestions and Ideas forums It gets drowned out by troll posts and people asking "ogm when is such-a-such comign out?1/!" and I cannot post it on the RBXDev because I cannot access it and I'm not considered special enough to get onto that forums. Finally I don't live in the USA or Canada so i cannot afford to go to any of the upcoming maker fairs.

I do hope that I can get a speedy response and would love it to be from the people who made the clan points system so I can understand how they think the clan points system is good.

regards,

Madknight Hatter (Youtube name)
AstantiVanhelm (ROBLOX name)
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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 6562
22 Aug 2014 01:15 PM
b1
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Lexatus is not online. Lexatus
Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Total Posts: 6567
22 Aug 2014 01:43 PM
100% SUPPORT.

The merging would also bring a bigger capability of making Empires.
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stormtrooper662668 is not online. stormtrooper662668
Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 2628
22 Aug 2014 01:45 PM
SUPPORT
GIVE GROUPS USEFUL FEATURES, NOOB MODS
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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 6562
22 Aug 2014 01:49 PM
b2
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ChipsieWestSide is not online. ChipsieWestSide
Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Total Posts: 1621
22 Aug 2014 01:50 PM
support
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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 6562
22 Aug 2014 01:58 PM
b3
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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 6562
22 Aug 2014 02:01 PM
b4
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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
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22 Aug 2014 02:13 PM
b5
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angelofunny is not online. angelofunny
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Total Posts: 572
22 Aug 2014 02:19 PM
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% support BRO DO THIS BRO DO THIS DO IT NAO PLS DO IT
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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 6562
22 Aug 2014 02:22 PM
b6
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zombie222222 is not online. zombie222222
Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Total Posts: 12662
22 Aug 2014 02:22 PM
tl;dr

EXPAND DONG
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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 6562
22 Aug 2014 02:58 PM
b7
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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
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22 Aug 2014 03:06 PM
b8
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BEASTLYxPOWERZ is not online. BEASTLYxPOWERZ
Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 70
22 Aug 2014 03:06 PM
support
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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 6562
22 Aug 2014 03:13 PM
b9
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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
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22 Aug 2014 03:24 PM
b10
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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
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22 Aug 2014 03:31 PM
b11
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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
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22 Aug 2014 03:48 PM
b12
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Rektologist is not online. Rektologist
Joined: 08 Feb 2014
Total Posts: 5667
22 Aug 2014 03:53 PM
1. roblox doesn't care about clans much qq
2. this is a terrible idea, if roblox were to make good updates for clans
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darkwisp is not online. darkwisp
Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 22653
22 Aug 2014 03:56 PM
remove clan points111

But seriously, join The Collision
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AstantiVanhelm is not online. AstantiVanhelm
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 6562
22 Aug 2014 04:28 PM
@rekt. Gib reason for why they're bad.
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SirAlfredTheGreat is not online. SirAlfredTheGreat
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 617
22 Aug 2014 04:51 PM
fantastic!
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