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| 22 Aug 2014 09:30 AM |
Hello, all :). I'm not neccesarily saying evolution is untrue, I just thought that these ideas were quite interesting. There are more, of course, but these seem to be the most viable.
1. The fossil record. Charles Darwin said that this was probably the biggest argument. There are no fossils of any creatures that could have been the transition between existing animals.
2. How could the transitional creatures survive long enough to evolve into something else if it had the elements needed for survival of neither animal (wings or scales, for example)?
3. Genetic homeostasis, the wall that stops creatures evolving beyond a certain point, demonstrated in countless artificial environments or with fruit flies. I think they also did this with bacteria which replicate generation really quickly, so they should have evolved but they reached a wall and did not evolve into a different species.
If you have anything to add (like the menacingly long name of that bacteria), or object to in terms of accuracy or wording, want to state arguments for evolution or just want to remind me about the various awful things that will happen to my body when I die in contrast to my belief system, then please, please post xx
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che46
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| Joined: 21 Oct 2010 |
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| 22 Aug 2014 09:56 AM |
| Just sayin, Darwin didn't explain the Origin of Life or the Origin of the Universe. |
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Unqees
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| 22 Aug 2014 10:10 AM |
There are also many evidences for the existence of Force Majeure (however you'll want to call it, for example - "God") but people can make statements against because it's a belief, I don't know why, but I believe in Force Majeure and mystical stuff because, first, I was born in such community and from all my years living and experience with such things - my brain just figured out that there's such a thing, each thinks differently.
However, when you wish for something to happen or want to talk to someone - God is always there listening to you and you can always have hope, if you don't believe in anything then you most likely won't have hope.
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XJCLW
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| Joined: 06 Nov 2010 |
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| 22 Aug 2014 10:13 AM |
| @unqees while I am not necessarily saying you are incorrect, you state there is proof then fail to provide it. Can you please present your proof? (I'm not trying to put down your believe or anything, I would just like to know. For example, I have personally OBSERVED and researched and found more evidence against a god than for one (quantum particles multiple states/possibilities at once IE coming into existence from nothing is possible, observable evolution and natural selection, AND transitional species fossils found.), so I would like this proof as a counter argument so I can personally think about it.) |
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XJCLW
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| Joined: 06 Nov 2010 |
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| 22 Aug 2014 10:21 AM |
Diamond, that wall against evolution has been proven time and time again as pseudo science, due to the fact that evolution = mutation in a new born baby. If the mutation is beneficial, the mate chooses that and the genes get passed on, natural selection dictating a high probability that another diff. beneficially mutated person would mate, making another slight alteration that is helpful, etc.
Mutation occures at every point, seeing as evolution is a process of mutation, and mutation is not blocked by species, or really anything. The chance of mutation does not go up or down during evolution, because mutation is caused by anything going wrong during any point in development - the mutated genes pass on. Takes millions of years, but eventually we get to a new species. Also, I have an arguement against the Christian creation method now, for you to see: We have evidence that: The earth is ROUND The earth is more than 6000 years old The earth orbits the sun But you bible says: The earth is 6000 years old The earth is flat The sun orbits the earth |
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XJCLW
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| Joined: 06 Nov 2010 |
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| 22 Aug 2014 10:22 AM |
| @che - evolution has nothing to do with creation of life and creation of universe, universe creation is quantum physics and life creation is chemistry. Different fields entirely, and the closest thing to evolution is genetics. |
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XJCLW
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| Joined: 06 Nov 2010 |
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| 22 Aug 2014 10:24 AM |
| Do not take any of my previous posts offensively, they are simple counter-arguments and refutations for the debate (and a request for the mentioned proof about a god) |
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Unqees
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| 22 Aug 2014 10:35 AM |
The bible doesn't claim "The earth is flat"...? People used to think so, I don't see that in the Jewish Bible however.
I can give you several statements why I think God exists, but you'll find all of those statements ridiculous, if you don't believe in something, you just don't.
I don't really have time to look for statements or type some, I don't like to debate and I have so many things to get done, maybe in another time, and I like face-to-face debates if I already take a part in any or at least on Skype, ROBLOX would block mostly everything.
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XJCLW
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| 22 Aug 2014 10:39 AM |
@unqees
it's all in the christian bible, that statement was for Diamond |
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Tappier
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link6249
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| 22 Aug 2014 01:31 PM |
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LzSX37C5J4 |
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| 22 Aug 2014 02:04 PM |
@X Actually if you read the bible, you would know there are many scientific proofs in the bible... The bible never says the Earth is 6000 years ago. People think so because when the stories begin with Moses and everything, but between the bible stories, there are many years that go through it. Also, in the bible it specifically says the Earth is in a orbit and it is a circle. This was on the original bible and that was when most people believed it was flat. Sorry, you are wrong. |
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| 22 Aug 2014 02:06 PM |
I was pretty much aware of this idea, but this explains it really well.
We have to acknowledge that Genesis 1 is not a scientific description of the earth. It is a theological one. We don’t have to become flat-earth creationists to accept the theology the writer is communicating—that God created the earth and everything in it. This is why biblical literalism fails. It fails to acknowledge the ancient writer’s worldview. It tries to cram modern rationalism and modern pseudo-science into an ancient text, and in so doing, it completely ignores the sacredness of the text—its poetic beauty, its structure, its focus on the sacred week, its emphasis on God as creator and on humanity as God’s representatives, and its acknowledgment of the goodness of all creation. All of these things are communicated through a flat earth, dome sky worldview, but they transcend it.
Also, regarding the mutation idea. I understand this entirely, but then I don't see why the experiments with the fruit flies and bacteria that replicate generations, or the artificially stimulated environments so quickly failed to produce anything else (and like I said, how would the transitional creatures survive? I'm not rather obnoxiously expecting you not to have an answer but I just have no idea)?
@Link
What a great video!
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| 22 Aug 2014 02:08 PM |
| Oh, that's a good point as well to whoever mentioned the supposed age of the universe according to the Bible. It's a pretty new idea. Still, I hope the above post should explain everything regarding this. I know it's awfully long, but please do read it, if anything. |
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XJCLW
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| 22 Aug 2014 06:59 PM |
| Not to mention the bible contradicts itself in many places, such as the man vs beast who came first. Also, just do your own research, also look up Answers in Genesis. That's fundamentalist christian belief, right there. Also, most christians are fundamentalist/evangelical. |
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XJCLW
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| 22 Aug 2014 07:04 PM |
@diamond I can not find the studies you speak of, but here's some simple logic for you: 50 red frogs 8 green frogs born with mutation wolf eats red frogs, green frogs are able to survive by hiding in grass through breeding green frogs' beneficial traits become norm wolves no longer eat frogs
See? mutations are observable in nature.
Also, evolution itself is very very VERY slight changes every 20-30 generations or so, and mutations that are harmful die out whereas helpful mutations survive on. Come on, it's just simple logic, and also mistakes - IE. DNA is faulty and produces differences. Differences benefit. People without beneficial mutation die due to not having the mutation. Left over non mutated species members mate with mutant. mutant gene carries on.
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XJCLW
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| Joined: 06 Nov 2010 |
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| 22 Aug 2014 07:06 PM |
| @diamond also fossils for transitional species have been found, Charles Darwin died in 1882, so there's not much up to date info there. |
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| 22 Aug 2014 08:50 PM |
God doesn't exist! EVOLUTION! *drops mic*
If you get that reference you can get the business, absolutely free. |
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| 23 Aug 2014 07:26 AM |
Since your points were quite unrelated and in different posts, I thought it would be easier to write my answers like this :).
1. Scientists have come to no conclusion whatsoever on any of them, so you cannot call them transitional fossils. Take Archaeopteryx, that looks like a lizard with feathery wings. Some people argue it was a true bird, some argue it was like a playtpus, ie a mosaic creature with features common to different animals and still others believe the transition with the respiratiory system and from being cold blooded to warm blooded would be impossible.
2. I think you paraphrased (albeit very well) the theory of evolution. I was just wondering if you know of the experiments mentioned and why they failed. I still think there would be a transitional creature at some point during the mutation which would be quite hard to get round. I'm not very clever. Please correct me if you can.
3. Answers In Genesis is what some people believe, but I'd kind of hoped that the whole paragraph against biblical literalism I posted would have explained it at least a bit.
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| 23 Aug 2014 08:18 AM |
"50 red frogs 8 green frogs born with mutation wolf eats red frogs, green frogs are able to survive by hiding in grass through breeding green frogs' beneficial traits become norm wolves no longer eat frogs"
The problem is, that's not a process that makes a T-Rex turn into a chicken. |
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| 23 Aug 2014 08:24 AM |
@noswad
A t-Rex wouldn't suddenly turn into a chicken. We assume it would have gone something like this: http://monkeyunderground.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/why-everything-tast-like-chicken/ |
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| 23 Aug 2014 08:24 AM |
| Just look at the first picture, that's the only part that matters. |
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XJCLW
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| Joined: 06 Nov 2010 |
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| 23 Aug 2014 11:54 AM |
@noswad Be intellegent, the trex to chicken would be more like: each generation of t rex gets a tiny tiny DNA/trait change millions of years of that happening later chicken |
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2013Yay
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| 23 Aug 2014 12:49 PM |
"How could the transitional creatures survive long enough to evolve into something else if it had the elements needed for survival of neither animal (wings or scales, for example)?"
Because of reproduction, some countrysides with better conditions and natural disasters which helped some of them or more reasons i didn't list. But reproduction is the main reason, for example if a species reproduced too slowly, the number of them would decrase until the reproduction completly stops which leads to becoming extinct. |
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