che46
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| Joined: 21 Oct 2010 |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:32 PM |
| Yes, atheists attain morality through many different things, instead of just following one set of morals as an entire ideology. |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:32 PM |
| Why would this even be a question? Religion doesn't = Moral people |
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che46
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| Joined: 21 Oct 2010 |
| Total Posts: 5509 |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:34 PM |
| Because if you are an atheist there isn't any real reason to be moral |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:37 PM |
"Because if you are an atheist there isn't any real reason to be moral"
Yes there is.. you imply that to be moral you have to be religious. Which is false. People aren't born bad people. Most are born good. To be atheist just means you have seen facts and you conclude you don't believe in God. |
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che46
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| Joined: 21 Oct 2010 |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:39 PM |
no, I'm not saying you have to be religious to be moral you are missing the point
I said if you are an atheist you have no real reason to be moral
if you are a christian, morality leads directly back to god |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:41 PM |
@shadow They can be moral, but what is their REASON to be moral?
And no, following the law does not necessarily mean morality. |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:42 PM |
People are moral because it comes naturally. Its not like people suddenly say "Hmm, I don't think I will be moral anymore!"
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:42 PM |
"I said if you are an atheist you have no real reason to be moral" "They can be moral, but what is their REASON to be moral?"
We don't need objective reason to be moral. |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:44 PM |
"People are moral because it comes naturally. Its not like people suddenly say "Hmm, I don't think I will be moral anymore!" "
Yes. They're called mirror neurons. Those are responsible for the... morals we're born with. If that makes any sense. Psychopaths and sociopaths have dysfunctional mirror neurons. That's why they aren't as moral as the usual person. |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:44 PM |
I remember Penn Jillette responding to a question that was similar to this one. I recall that he was asked about the fact that, being an atheist, he was technically able to rob and murder all he wanted to without any sort of higher authority.
He responded by saying that he did murder as he pleased; and that the amount of people that he wanted to murder was zero. Similarly, the desire he had to rob or commit any other type of crime was virtually nil.
The gist of his argument was that, while he had no reason to be moral, he was still able to exercise self-control without the need of a higher power to watch over him. Sort of like how children know not to eat all of the cookies in the jar. |
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che46
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| Joined: 21 Oct 2010 |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:46 PM |
Morality doesn't come naturally, I'm not saying moral atheists DONT exist
what I am saying people who follow a particular faith have a reason to be moral, and follow certain rules because god will judge them
this isn't a thread insulting atheists or anything like that |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:47 PM |
| "So what's the point of being moral if God doesn't exist? It's the same "point" that people should acknowledge if God does exist: because the happiness and suffering of other human beings matter to us such that we should seek, whenever possible, to increase their happiness and decrease their suffering. It's also the "point" that morality is required for human social structures and human communities to survive at all. Neither the presence nor the absence of any gods can change this, and while religious theists may find that their beliefs impact their moral decisions, they cannot claim that their beliefs are prerequisites for making any moral decisions at all." |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:47 PM |
"Morality doesn't come naturally, I'm not saying moral atheists DONT exist"
If you're not a psychopath or a sociopath, it should come naturally...
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che46
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| Joined: 21 Oct 2010 |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:51 PM |
| I guess but this thread isn't about if morality comes naturally, it's about what REASON do atheists have to be moral not that it just comes to them |
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| 07 Jul 2014 01:59 PM |
Also, is it fact or just a coincidence that less religious and higher atheist countries are more peaceful than religious ones?
Most Religious countries(Christian):
Honduras - Christian 99% GPI 112 Guatemala - Christian 99% GPI 111 Ecuador - Christian 99% GPI 109 Venezuela - Christian 98% GPI 102 Colombia - Christian 97% GPI 130 Ukraine - Christian 96% GPI 82 Argentina - Christian 94% GPI 66 Cuba - Christian 89% GPI 68 Brazil - Christian 87% GPI 85
USA - Christian 72% GPI 83
Least Religious countries:
Sweden - Non religious - 85% GPI 6 Vietnam - Non religious - 81% GPI 39 Denmark - Non religious - 80% GPI 2 Norway - Non religious - 72% GPI 2 Japan - Non religious - 76% GPI 7 Czech Rep - Non religious - 61% GPI 11 Finland - Non religious - 60% GPI 9 France - Non religious - 54% GPI 30 Germany - Non religious - 49% GPI 16 Hungary - Non religious - 48% GPI 27
GPI - Global Peace Index: 1 = best 144 = worst |
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| 07 Jul 2014 02:00 PM |
"I guess but this thread isn't about if morality comes naturally, it's about what REASON do atheists have to be moral not that it just comes to them"
You mean other than the basic tenets of human decency that should not be limited to religious people? |
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che46
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| Joined: 21 Oct 2010 |
| Total Posts: 5509 |
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| 07 Jul 2014 02:01 PM |
| Because different religious fight with each other |
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| 07 Jul 2014 02:01 PM |
"I guess but this thread isn't about if morality comes naturally, it's about what REASON do atheists have to be moral not that it just comes to them"
Because the happiness and suffering of other human beings matter to us such that we should seek, whenever possible, to increase their happiness and decrease their suffering.
Maybe you didn't catch that in my earlier post. |
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| 07 Jul 2014 02:02 PM |
"If you're not a psychopath or a sociopath, it should come naturally..." You aren't born moral. If you are raised in a moral community, you are likely to be moral. If you are raised in an immoral community, you are likely to be immoral.
Yes, some people have disorders that make them more likely to be immoral (such as having complete apathy towards, or taking pleasure in, the loss of human life) but that does not mean they cannot control themselves.
Sometimes, people are turned immoral simply by exposure to immorality (such as with child soldiers).
Morality is not some set-in-stone-from-birth thing, morality depends on the environment you are brought up in and the actions you are taught to be moral.
To tie this into the whole Christian morals vs atheism morals thing on this thread: If 2 communities were suddenly started, isolated from the world and each other, the people having no previous notions of "moral" and "immoral", "right" and "wrong", with 1 community being atheist, told they have no rules/guidelines to follow; that they invent them on their own, and the other being Christian, given a set of morals to follow (such as the ten commandments) and given the ways of Jesus to follow... You have to admit, the Christian one would have a significantly higher chance of being a "moral" community rather than the one left to define morals on its own, with no particular reason to follow any morals so long as the community survives. |
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