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Re: Are Rules of Engagement good or bad?

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xKodiac is not online. xKodiac
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 719
25 Jun 2014 02:39 AM
I think they limit combat efficientcy in rl and are useless in Roblox.

What do you think?
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Kaboose671 is not online. Kaboose671
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Total Posts: 20500
25 Jun 2014 02:39 AM
a tad bit silly in some scenarios





"Drink tea" -(ง ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)ง

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sayyanne is not online. sayyanne
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Total Posts: 756
25 Jun 2014 02:39 AM
wut
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yuiopp is not online. yuiopp
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Total Posts: 5695
25 Jun 2014 02:41 AM
rules of engagement irl help soldier not shoot civilians or inadvertently start a war
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romuluz is online. romuluz
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 18124
25 Jun 2014 02:42 AM
Good.

Don't think of it from a tactical standpoint, think of it from a logical standpoint.

No rules of engagement= everyone can nuke each other, kill innocent civilians and use biological(which could wipe out the world if left unchecked) and chemical warfare whenever the hell they pleased.

Also, if say england wanted France.

Then by all means they could take it for no god damned reason(Not that that stops certain countries anyways)

tl;dr: Rules of engagements saves us all from extinction and unnecessary bloodshed
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xKodiac is not online. xKodiac
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 719
25 Jun 2014 02:45 AM
ROE isn't on a global scale. Its used during combat operations but not full scale war. It applies to soldiers on what they can and can't do. Nukes aren't part of ROE and chemical weapons are rare.
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romuluz is online. romuluz
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 18124
25 Jun 2014 02:47 AM
"ROE isn't on a global scale."

UN regulations can pretty much be considered as rules of engagement as well, more of a general standard cos u will be condemned if u do what they say is bad.

And my first one still applies

"No killing of completely innocent civilians"

I mean, if we get invaded do YOU want to be murdered for no good reason whatsoever?
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romuluz is online. romuluz
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 18124
25 Jun 2014 02:48 AM
"chemical weapons are rare."

#Syria

it's happened in the last 6 months dood. lel.
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BrotherBerzerk is not online. BrotherBerzerk
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 1350
25 Jun 2014 02:51 AM
"Rules of engagements saves us all from extinction and unnecessary bloodshed" [2]
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xKodiac is not online. xKodiac
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 719
25 Jun 2014 02:55 AM
Let me redefine what I meant by ROE

Rules of Engagement: The authorized and unauthorized actions taken on the battleground for infantry, vehicles, and attack air craft. Not including WMDs or CWs. Btw, "chemical weapons are rare" as in rarely involved in ROE.

And honestly, ROE's killed more Americans in afghanastan than the number of civilians it's saved.
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romuluz is online. romuluz
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 18124
25 Jun 2014 02:59 AM
" The authorized and unauthorized actions taken on the battleground for infantry, vehicles, and attack air craft. Not including WMDs or CWs. Btw, "chemical weapons are rare" as in rarely involved in ROE."

Jesus, yes, the UN conditions DO fall under your definition.

And you're one of those gun toting red necks aren't you? Damn, I'm sure glad that you're not across seas fighting for us right now.

You'd just go running through the streets blindly shooting at every damned person you see wouldn't you?

"And honestly, ROE's killed more Americans in afghanastan than the number of civilians it's saved."

And no, that's HIGHLY unlikely as the death toll for our troop in afghan is a little over 3k

And if there we no rules of engagements I can guarentee you that at least 3x that number would be reported in civilian deaths.
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romuluz is online. romuluz
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 18124
25 Jun 2014 03:00 AM
"as in rarely involved in ROE."

omg r u dumb?

there wos liek an entire pact for chemical and bio weapons after world war I.

liek srsly, an entire agreement made just for them.

lel.
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xKodiac is not online. xKodiac
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 719
25 Jun 2014 03:06 AM
Operation Red Wing.

4 US Navy SEALs head out into the mountains of afghanastan to locate a well know taliban leader.

When they set up recon, they encountered two goat herders.

That missions ROE stated they must be fired upon by an enemy before they could engage.

The SEALs are extremely experienced and familiar with the taliban and knew that the goat herders would rat them out if they released them. They all knew the tactical desiscion was to eliminate the compromise. They followed ROE. That desicion took the lives of three of the four SEALs on the recon team as well as 19 other Americans with a total of 22 deaths because they couldnt kill a "unarmed civiliain".

Im not saying we should be able to kill random civilians, we should be aloud to kill civilians who compromise a military operation.

Most civilian deaths in afghanastan aren't civilians but unarmed taliban troops. Before the military set up a program to take pictures of all dead taliban troops, the taliban would claim them to be unarmed civilians and get them onto the media so the whole world could watch and point their fingers at an American for killing the guys he was told to.




"And you're one of those gun toting red necks aren't you? Damn, I'm sure glad that you're not across seas fighting for us right now."

Funny thing about that is I know a lot of people who said they'd go to war with me and follow me into battle in rl and I'm completley against owning a sht load of unessessary assault rifles and MGs.
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xKodiac is not online. xKodiac
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 719
25 Jun 2014 03:08 AM
You call me dumb when you consider ROE to be an agreement between countries. If that were true, we'd never make any progress in any conflict.
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romuluz is online. romuluz
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 18124
25 Jun 2014 03:13 AM
You're post stinks of stupidity and it's obvious now that your entire knowledge of this subject is limited to stuff you learned at the movies.

Straight A student here.

Not saying that Lone Survivor was an uneducated movie(In fact it was good despite the 'Murica, YEAH!' part at the end which was entirely unlikely that they used an AC130 to bomb the crap out of a civilian infested area.)

But what I'm trying to say here is that it was GOOD that they didn't kill the civilians. They knew that they were sealing their fate when they let them go but two of those civilians were BOYS. And the other an old man(Good on you mr. duchecanoe, ur a child killer, and want our soldiers to kill children "for the mission" good on you)

Also a lot of those civilians are KILLED if they don't reveal knowledge about Americans, even if they are just SUSPECTED of knowing where an American is, whether they really know or not.

Also, sources please on the taliban doing that please?

I'm dieing to see this.
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romuluz is online. romuluz
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 18124
25 Jun 2014 03:16 AM
And often times it is kid.

How the hell do you think we come to those decissions half the time.

How the hell do you think that people aren't currently nuking the hell out of each other?

Oh wait, I know.

Because leaders sat down and decided upon agreements to not do certain things for the sake of the innocent during military engagements.
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xKodiac is not online. xKodiac
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 719
25 Jun 2014 03:17 AM
We didnt agree with h&tler on how to fight WWII, we didn't agree with Vietnam on how we'd fight, we didn't agree with Iraq.
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xKodiac is not online. xKodiac
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 719
25 Jun 2014 03:21 AM
Source on taliban: Active Duty/Retired Navy SEALs, Rangers, Army soldiers, Marines, etc.

First, lone survivor was a good movie but highly inaccurate.

Those two "civilians" had a radio which was linked back to the village where the Taliban army was staying and the AC-130 never randomly fired on a village. Soure: Lone Survivor(the book), officiald eclassification, and Marcus in person.
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romuluz is online. romuluz
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 18124
25 Jun 2014 03:21 AM
^Now you're bringing up crazy dictators who would've done it whether we sat down and agreed to it or not, and in the case of h&tler, he committed loads of war crimes during the war.

Everything you've listed were situations were America(For the most part save for a few instances) followed ROE where some crazy dictator broke everything he could.

Nor does it refute the entire basis of my first argument.
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xKodiac is not online. xKodiac
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 719
25 Jun 2014 03:22 AM
And like I said before, the taliban claim any soldier killed by an American as an unarmed civilian. They use ROE and the media against us.
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xKodiac is not online. xKodiac
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 719
25 Jun 2014 03:23 AM
We never followed ROE in Vietnam. We just killed random people for no tactical reason.
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romuluz is online. romuluz
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 18124
25 Jun 2014 03:26 AM
"Source on taliban: Active Duty/Retired Navy SEALs, Rangers, Army soldiers, Marines, etc.

First, lone survivor was a good movie but highly inaccurate.

Those two "civilians" had a radio which was linked back to the village where the Taliban army was staying and the AC-130 never randomly fired on a village. Soure: Lone Survivor(the book), officiald eclassification, and Marcus in person."

First, never said the AC-130 randomly fired I said it's unlikely that it would be used when civilians were in such close proximity.

Also, Your source only dipicts Lone survivor and is completely irellevent to what I'm asking for. Also stuff coming from US soldiers will be HIGHLY biased and is not an entirely trustable source, despite it's wonderful ethos. It's pretty much like an Iraqi getting all their knowledge about the war from a taliban member, another highly biased source. You're also not even citing what Soldiers are saying this and are only telling me that they did.

That's like me telling you that Oprah Winfrey killed Obama.

Lastly, if you didn't notice, those civilians were not exactly free and were more than likely forced to carry that radio.

Another thing too, even if they killed the civilians *Ahem* Child Killer *Ahem* The taliban soldiers still would've most likely noticed they were gone and went out looking for them.

And they still probably would have died.



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xKodiac is not online. xKodiac
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 719
25 Jun 2014 03:35 AM
I brought up lone survivor as an example of the harm ROE can cause ._.

The recon phase of the operation wasn't expected to be long and a quick reaction force was on stand by to raid the village and wipe out the army once it was confirmed the person of value was in the village. The QRF would have arrived before anyone really noticed them(although they may have been returning shortly).

There was a nearby village of Pashtuns(forgot how to spell it) who aren't very fond of the taliban and have a belief that and guest must be protected at all costs so if the goat herders were forced to work for the taliban, they could have easily have taken refuge in the near by village.

Misread the AC-130 part. mb. ._.

If you want me to cite every soldier/veteran I've talked to and every books I've read and operation report(can't really cite most of those), you'd have to be willing to stay up an hour for me to put them all on one forum.
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xKodiac is not online. xKodiac
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 719
25 Jun 2014 03:36 AM
Honestly, you sound like the politicians who attack military personel accused of killing a "unarmed citizen" just for political attention who, in reality, has no knowledge of military tactics or an understanding of the current situation in Afghanastan and Pakistan with the taliban.
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romuluz is online. romuluz
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Total Posts: 18124
25 Jun 2014 03:43 AM
One huge flaw.

The squad was unable to use radio and even when they did the signal was weak. On top of that, it took a while for the reinforcements to get there EVEN when the message got through since the Apache transports were scrambled elsewhere.

It wasn't working along with other complications and therefore they would not get that "quick evac" you speak of.

Also I believe this village you speak of IS the village that they were scouting. There could have been another one, but you seem to be entirely forgetting that most afghans are not fond of the taliban, this includes 2/3 of the survivors they let live.

And again, cite them if you want but if you're only going to bring me american soldiers and no other source I'm imedeatly going to call bias on your sources.

You didn't seem to read that part.

They have GREAT ethos but they're going to be highly biased, sorry dude, but American soldiers aren't truth spitting perfect gods on earth. They're people like everyone else.
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