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Re: karl marx is my hero

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TheFoxIsMute is not online. TheFoxIsMute
Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Total Posts: 284
27 May 2014 11:12 PM
he believed in a system where all workers were treated fairly and equally and this turned into norway
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flatline115 is not online. flatline115
Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Total Posts: 7826
27 May 2014 11:15 PM
Actually he believed in a system where everybody gets paid the same and works for the same which instituted in the Soviet Union.
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TheFoxIsMute is not online. TheFoxIsMute
Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Total Posts: 284
27 May 2014 11:15 PM
communism is an anarchist ideal, not an oppressive authoritative regime
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
27 May 2014 11:18 PM
You sir, are an imbecile.
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TheFoxIsMute is not online. TheFoxIsMute
Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Total Posts: 284
27 May 2014 11:18 PM
Explain, without directly accusing me.
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
27 May 2014 11:19 PM
The proletariat dictatorship is a direct ideology of Communism. That is an authoritarian regime.
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TheFoxIsMute is not online. TheFoxIsMute
Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Total Posts: 284
27 May 2014 11:20 PM
"Communism (from Latin communis – common, universal) is a socioeconomic system structured upon common ownership of the means of production and characterised by the absence of classes, money, and the state"

>"absence of classes, money, and the state"
>"absence of the state"
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
27 May 2014 11:22 PM
Once again, this is not how Communism is applied, that is why most communists are Marxist-Leninist. North Korea is a perfect example of a "Proletariat dictatorship".
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TheFoxIsMute is not online. TheFoxIsMute
Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Total Posts: 284
27 May 2014 11:24 PM
Communism is a broad term, in that case, as I was referring only to Karl Marx's ideals. not some drunkard Lenin's ideals.
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
27 May 2014 11:25 PM
Marx's system failed, it did not have a central government to hold it together. Same reason why Anarchy would never work, it is not sustainable in today's world.
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TheFoxIsMute is not online. TheFoxIsMute
Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Total Posts: 284
27 May 2014 11:25 PM
So all this dictatorship bs is irrelevant.

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Shadowcat82 is not online. Shadowcat82
Joined: 29 Jul 2012
Total Posts: 392
27 May 2014 11:26 PM
"The “Congo Village,” or Kongoslandsbyen, was a fake tribal village built in Frogner Park for the 1914 Oslo World Fair. Visitors could pay to gawk at 80 African men, women and children —apparently Congolese — living in thatched huts, wearing traditional garments and doing “indigenous” things.

In just five months it attracted 1.4 million visitors, or roughly half the population of Norway. A newspaper at the time described it as “exceedingly funny” while another enthused, “it’s wonderful that we are white!”"
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DrCaneJr is not online. DrCaneJr
Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Total Posts: 4970
27 May 2014 11:27 PM
No it is not, because the evolution of something is its application. You would not compare a grey wolf to a dire wolf to prove that dire wolves are better, because dire wolves do not exist. Communism is the exact same, Marxism can not exist in the terms of human nature.
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TheFoxIsMute is not online. TheFoxIsMute
Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Total Posts: 284
27 May 2014 11:27 PM
Marxism holds that a process of class conflict and revolutionary struggle will result in victory for the proletariat and the establishment of a communist society in which private property and ownership is abolished over time and the means of production and subsistence belong to the community.

>"over time"

Hell, abolishing private property could take 2 centuries for a country.

No one's had communism long enough, because they were too busy rushing it.
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flatline115 is not online. flatline115
Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Total Posts: 7826
27 May 2014 11:27 PM
communism is an anarchist ideal, not an oppressive authoritative regime
-------------------------------------------
Communism in that ideal results in utter economic chaos it was tried and failed. Even without the soviet union I will give you another example.

"A report of October 1825 listed only 137 members "in the employed
professions." The Preliminary Society consumed far more than it produced, and though it
existed only nine months, Owen had serious shortages of food because hardly any crops
were harvested, and a shortage of housing. In addition, many of the Harmonist buildings
were in need of maintenance which few members were qualified to perform, and this
helped to create a shortage of housing." - USI
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sekretaryuk is not online. sekretaryuk
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 840
27 May 2014 11:49 PM
@DrCaneJr:

Karl Marx's system failed? Perhaps, but looking at China, it's at its highest peak, and is steadily growing as an economic power that will one day have more effect on the world than USA.
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flatline115 is not online. flatline115
Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Total Posts: 7826
27 May 2014 11:57 PM
Karl Marx's system failed? Perhaps, but looking at China, it's at its highest peak
-------------------------
One china two systems. Which is doing better hong kong or the PRC? Lets look at the data.

Hong kong GNI Per Capita: 36,560
China GNI Per Capita: 10,900
Source: World Bank

Unemployment Rate:
China: 4.1%
Hong Kong: 3.1%
Source: Statistica, Ecns

.....
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sekretaryuk is not online. sekretaryuk
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 840
28 May 2014 12:02 AM
What's your point? All I said is that China is doing better than before. I didn't compare it to other countries (yet).

By the way, technically Hong Kong is a part of China; "ONE country, two systems."

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flatline115 is not online. flatline115
Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Total Posts: 7826
28 May 2014 12:07 AM
What's your point? All I said is that China is doing better than before. I didn't compare it to other countries (yet).

By the way, technically Hong Kong is a part of China; "ONE country, two systems."
------------
Hong Kong by law has to be left a lone till 2040. So it is a key example of Capitalism vs Communism in two relatively same geographical positions. Also China is not really communist with its special economic zones..

"Leong (2012) investigates the role of special economic zones (SEZs) in liberalizing the Chinese and Indian economies and their impact on economic growth. The policy change to a more liberalized economy is identified using SEZ variables as instrumental variables. The results indicate that export and FDI growth have positive and statistically significant effects on economic growth in these countries. The presence of SEZs increases regional growth but increasing the number of SEZs has negligible effect on growth. The key to faster economic growth appears to be a greater pace of liberalization."
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applepie103 is not online. applepie103
Joined: 19 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 5023
28 May 2014 12:20 AM
Sorry to barge into this conversation, but in my opinion the biggest problem with communism is that it opens the door for an authoritarian figure, a dictator, to take control. It is an appealing idea, but it fails every time. Take Stalin for example. Or Kim Jong-un. The latter especially turned his supposedly democratic country into almost a monarchy.
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flatline115 is not online. flatline115
Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Total Posts: 7826
28 May 2014 12:22 AM
is that it opens the door for an authoritarian figure, a dictator, to take control
--------
Even when this didn't happen in the Robert Owen experiment it still failed horribly economically.
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applepie103 is not online. applepie103
Joined: 19 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 5023
28 May 2014 12:25 AM
Did you just quote what I said?
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EmperorAntoine is not online. EmperorAntoine
Joined: 22 May 2013
Total Posts: 537
28 May 2014 12:25 AM
The term "dictatorship" meant a different thing back in the 1800s. It simply meant rule. The rule of the working class. It didn't mean an authoritan totalitarian regime.
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flatline115 is not online. flatline115
Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Total Posts: 7826
28 May 2014 12:26 AM
Did you just quote what I said?
---------
Yes.
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applepie103 is not online. applepie103
Joined: 19 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 5023
28 May 2014 01:09 AM
Right, but historically communist governments haven't turned out to be ruled by a working class, and instead by an authoritarian leader.
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