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Re: Thoughts on Russia & Ukraine Tensions?

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spydig is not online. spydig
Joined: 13 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 10448
21 Apr 2014 05:45 PM
I wish for no argument, I just wanna see what you guys think on this conflict.

And if something does happen, flame wars, I don't wanna argue.


Thoughts please.
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abalonemascarponi is not online. abalonemascarponi
Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Total Posts: 2648
21 Apr 2014 05:46 PM
i must say that russia has a right for the crimea

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wyattthenoobhater is not online. wyattthenoobhater
Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Total Posts: 967
21 Apr 2014 07:06 PM
Well, the people of Crimea want to be Russian, a majority of them. Let them be Russian!
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sekretaryuk is not online. sekretaryuk
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 840
21 Apr 2014 08:00 PM
I'm from Ukraine, the south east of it to be accurate.

In the south east the opinion of the people is very anti-EU and anti-US, but the EU and US doesn't pay attention or care about it. As a matter of fact, to be more accurate, the West of Ukraine and the South East of Ukraine hate each other. It's historical.

As for news sources, Russian news show propaganda, yes, but at this point even western media has fallen to the point where they too show propaganda that befits them.

Take Crimea for example. International observers were in Crimea (look it up, it's true), but I never saw anything of that sort reported in the western headlines. I know from first hand sources that Russian troops were in Crimea, but no forces were brought in Crimea. Russia had 25,000 troops stationed there for god knows how many years (which is a fact). Who's my first hand source? My aunt. She is from Crimea, she voted in the referendum. Based from what she told me, I don't think it was as rigged as US and EU makes it seem. 95% is bs, it was probably more like 87%, but I don't doubt the fact that the majority voted for joining Russia.

The people of the South east of Ukraine dislike the west of Ukraine for their radical views. Take one of the major parties, Svoboda, for example. It's a right-wing extremist party. Another reason why the South east dislikes the west is because most people in the west of Ukraine idolize Stepan Bandera. Stepan Bandera, who's last name has become almost a synonym of evil and N a z i s m in Russia and the south east of Ukraine, is a very interesting personae. He is idolized in the west of Ukraine for fighting for Ukraine's independence. I agree, that's a good goal, but the way he did it is dirty. Starting from 1930s, he created an organization that fought against Russians and the Polish. He murdered thousands. Just recently in fact the new government in Ukraine officiated a top secret document about diaries of some people who's families were murdered. In the 1940s, he first allied with the N a z i s and fought against the Communists, then he tried betraying the N a z i s, was put in a concentration camp, and eventually was let out.

His organization was sponsored by MI6 from the 30s, and was later also sponsored by CIA in the late 40s.
[quote=Quote From Wikipedia About Stepan Bandera]It is estimated that nearly 70,000 Poles, mostly women and children along with unarmed men, were killed during the spring and summer campaign of 1943 in Volhynia[38] by the OUN-Bandera which bears primary responsibility for the massacres.[/quote]

Why is he idolized for killing people? Well, that's a part why the South East hates the West of Ukraine. The West also helped N a z i s during WWII while the South East fought against them.

So, when this new government came into power, videos like these are started to scare the South East:

www.youtube(DOT)com/watch?v=6vy4dbbd1kw = Tymoshenko Scandal

Yes, Tymoshenko confirmed that this conversation took place via her Twitter. Why did the Western media ignore this!? This pisses off people from the South East.

www.youtube(DOT)com/watch?v=6nnmbR-MWFA = Svoboda Scandal

So, this is a peculiar video. See the guy with the ponytail? He's a member of the new "democratic" government, the party called Svoboda. He's in charge for the freedom of speech. What is he doing in this office? Well, this is the office of Ukraine's main TV channel. They are trying to force the guy in charge of the national channel to quit his job for showing a part of Putin's talk on TV after Crimea joined Russia. Now, let's look back, weren't these guys fighting for the freedom of speech at the "Maidan"? Oh yes they did! Is this freedom of speech? I don't think so!

These were just a few videos.

People here, in the South East, want ONE of the 3 things:

1) A federalization so our regions, which account for the majority of the country's GDP, didn't have to send the money to the West of Ukraine. It would be good for us, but bad for the West because it would cause extreme poverty there. We don't want to pay money to them who plunged the country into hundreds of billions of dollars of dept. We're pissed at them.

2) Become a separate country. We have the resources, we have everything that's needed to become a separate country.

3) Become a part of Russia. We have ties with Russia that are historical and cultural, and in the south east, most of us speak Russian. Even schools are taught in Russian. As I said, we are not pro-Ukrainian. I know Ukrainian, but I am more familiar with Russian.

Why are people of the south east unhappy with the new government? Well, many reasons:

1) It scares us, a lot.

2) They almost banned Russian.

3) In Ex-Soviet countries, there is a holiday that is celebrated, May 9th. May 9th is the day when WWII with Germany ended. For many people, it's very major. It symbolizes an end of horror, an end of war, an end of N a z i s m. Well, the new government passed a law that states that this day isn't a holiday anymore.

4) They are ignoring us.

5) When people at the Maidan burned buildings, threw molotov cocktails and policemen and rioted, it was considered legal. Now they're branded as heroes. What did they fight for and against whom? They fought because they were tired of corruption and the government (which was elected mainly thanks to the South East). Yes, the old government was horrible, but the new one is even worse. Now people in the South East who riot are branded as terrorists and separatists, yet they are doing the same thing. This just adds oil to the fire.

6) We want a referendum. The western media may consider the referendum that will happen in the south east illegal, but, remember, USA's illegal actions in Kosovo did not lead to any sanctions against USA. Why?

By the way, Russia has a point, because USA/EU themselves made Crimea rejoining Russia legal. UNO’s international court in 2010: “No general prohibition may be inferred from the practice of the Security Council with regard to declarations of independence”, “General international law contains no prohibition on declarations of independence”, “Declarations of independence may, and often do, violate domestic legislation. However, this does not make them violations of international law” (Written Statement of the United States America of April 17, 2009, submitted to the same UN International Court).

And 1994' memorandum was not ratified by Ukraine (then-speaker of Rada Litvin wanted to pass it through, but Rada never got to do it).


On an interesting note, I saw on Ukrainian TV a guy from the parliament talking and saying how they confirm how MOST people rioting in the South East are citizens of Ukraine.

I could write a lot more but it's getting late for me. Anyways, I might make a big topic and describe everything in more detail, because I'm tired of propaganda from both sides.
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0Z0NE is not online. 0Z0NE
Joined: 25 May 2010
Total Posts: 7951
21 Apr 2014 08:48 PM
[ Content Deleted ]
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flatline115 is not online. flatline115
Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Total Posts: 7826
21 Apr 2014 09:11 PM
I have a feeling the Crimea will attempt to secede from Russia, and try to merge with Ukraine again
-----------
You have no knowledge of the Crimean's history do you? Once Russia conquered it they never tried to secede. And the reason the Crimea (was) The Ukraine's is because, a special soviet leader gave the Crimea to the Ukraine -- the Crimeans didn't ask to be given to the Ukraine.
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sekretaryuk is not online. sekretaryuk
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 840
21 Apr 2014 09:19 PM
Flatline knows his stuff.
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BENSTILLHAUNTS is not online. BENSTILLHAUNTS
Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Total Posts: 7273
21 Apr 2014 09:25 PM
If their government really believed the people had a say in matters, they would let the eastern side of Ukraine be Russia'd.
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0Z0NE is not online. 0Z0NE
Joined: 25 May 2010
Total Posts: 7951
21 Apr 2014 11:54 PM
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TheHarlequinsDemise is not online. TheHarlequinsDemise
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Total Posts: 37109
22 Apr 2014 12:18 AM
the crimea situation has been absolutely blown out of proportion by the western media.

the majority of crimea is russian. they've always been russian in their eyes. they'd dump ukraine to jump to russia in a second if they had the chance. they got their chance, they took it.

the votes were probably bs in the end but the overwhelming majority of people in crimea are russian and will always follow russia. the us government/media just want to make russia look bad.
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sekretaryuk is not online. sekretaryuk
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 840
23 Apr 2014 12:33 AM
@TheHarlequin:

I would also like to add on, as a person from the South east of Ukraine, the majority of us here (probably 75%) want to become a separate country or join Russia as well.
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Jiangdow43 is not online. Jiangdow43
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Total Posts: 1039
23 Apr 2014 02:13 AM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=628_1397664641
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sekretaryuk is not online. sekretaryuk
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 840
25 Apr 2014 11:04 PM
The people in the Southeast won't back down at this point; no matter what the US tries telling to the new Ukraine government, these people will stay strong till they are either separated or the new government leaves, out of which the latter won't occur.
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spiffyjohn53 is not online. spiffyjohn53
Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Total Posts: 317
08 Jun 2014 05:56 PM
SLAVA UKRAYINI
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Psycohorse is not online. Psycohorse
Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Total Posts: 4
08 Jun 2014 06:40 PM
Russia stronk Ukraine a punch of pig farmers who cares about them LEL
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UsedForGaming is not online. UsedForGaming
Joined: 25 Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1272
08 Jun 2014 06:58 PM
Most Crimeans didn't want to be part of a poor country anymore
Most Crimeas would rather want indipendence than be russian
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