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Re: What is the political spectrum?

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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
16 Jan 2014 07:30 PM
I'm pretty sure it goes from total government to no government, left to right. Is this correct? Is it more complicated than this?
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MrMaoZedong is not online. MrMaoZedong
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Total Posts: 194
16 Jan 2014 07:48 PM
I think you got it rightf
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coolmanownz is not online. coolmanownz
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Total Posts: 10641
16 Jan 2014 08:54 PM
a popular form of false equivalency
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ArchitectOfEden is not online. ArchitectOfEden
Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 3423
16 Jan 2014 08:56 PM
I think one version is Anarchism to Fascism, which is based on how "left or right" a political viewpoint is, and the other is the government control, going from Anarchism to Communism and Fascism.
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coolmanownz is not online. coolmanownz
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Total Posts: 10641
16 Jan 2014 08:58 PM
"I think one version is Anarchism to Fascism, which is based on how "left or right" a political viewpoint is, and the other is the government control, going from Anarchism to Communism and Fascism."


oh dear

the political spectrum features the left vs right (political views) and authoritarian vs libertarian (governmental control).
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AlteFritz is not online. AlteFritz
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 5936
16 Jan 2014 10:15 PM
I thought it was based on economic views.
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ValeriusMaximus is not online. ValeriusMaximus
Joined: 28 May 2013
Total Posts: 425
17 Jan 2014 03:00 PM
I could teach you the origins of the terms "Left and Right"; but I really don't care enough to. Just know this, Communists are on the far left. Fascists and Monarchs are on the right.
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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
17 Jan 2014 03:06 PM
@Valerius

I believe it had something to do with revolutionary France, where the supporters of the old regime sat on the right and the ones who wanted change sat on the left in the National Assembly. Using that very definition, wouldn't fascists, monarchists, communists, etc all be on the left because they want to radically change the current system? Even more interestingly, wouldn't libertarians and anarchists also be on the left? And liberals/conservatives would be on the right.
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ValeriusMaximus is not online. ValeriusMaximus
Joined: 28 May 2013
Total Posts: 425
17 Jan 2014 03:10 PM
You are right about your history. It originated from that, but it is not exactly the same is it was. Anarchists are considered extreme leftists. Libertarians are pretty much Centrist.
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ValeriusMaximus is not online. ValeriusMaximus
Joined: 28 May 2013
Total Posts: 425
17 Jan 2014 03:11 PM
Back then, Conserv's were the one that wanted to restore the Monarchy. Liberals wanted a Republican for of Gov. Times change, man.
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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
17 Jan 2014 03:20 PM
In all honesty the French system seems outdated then. The most logical political spectrum measures the power of the government in the economy, moral, and political lives of its citizens. Using that scale, it would go something like this (you could possibly add a second dimension for economic control; this is just for political control)

communism > fascism > socialism > social-democracy > US liberalism > centrist > US conservative > libertarian > anarchist

Not sure where monarchy would fit in but probably somewhere on the left, unless it's just a constitutional limited monarchy.
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ValeriusMaximus is not online. ValeriusMaximus
Joined: 28 May 2013
Total Posts: 425
17 Jan 2014 03:22 PM
Conservatism - a political or theological orientation advocating the preservation of the best in society and opposing radical changes

Liberalism - a political orientation that favors social progress by reform and by changing laws rather than by revolution
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AlteFritz is not online. AlteFritz
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Total Posts: 5936
17 Jan 2014 03:23 PM
National Socialism is Centrist.
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ValeriusMaximus is not online. ValeriusMaximus
Joined: 28 May 2013
Total Posts: 425
17 Jan 2014 03:23 PM
National Socialism is far right, mate.
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BloxaBrick is not online. BloxaBrick
Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 25309
17 Jan 2014 03:27 PM
Liberal < Moderate > Conservative

Then there are ones that go up and down based on economical and basic freedoms
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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
17 Jan 2014 03:32 PM
National socialism and communism are extremely alike, even in theory.

They both support the collective over the individual.
They both either want private property abolished or extremely heavily regulated so it serves the state.
They both do not favor liberal democratic governments, rule of law, or checks and balances.
They both are highly centralized totalitarian single-party states.
They both advocate the use of violence and mob rule.
They both make use of heavy economic planning.
They both view capitalism negatively.
They both have autocratic leaders.
They both advocate violence against one group (either the jews or the rich)
They both want to radically change society.
They both made heavy use of propaganda, censorship, and indoctrination.
They both support nationalization of key industries.

And before you say "oh well that wasn't true communism," keep in mind this has happened 99% of the time communism has been tried; it's safe to assume that it will happen again if we tried communism.
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ValeriusMaximus is not online. ValeriusMaximus
Joined: 28 May 2013
Total Posts: 425
17 Jan 2014 04:09 PM
You got it. Dead on.
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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
17 Jan 2014 04:10 PM
Then why are you trying to say they're opposites, Val? You think fascism is far-right and communism is far-left. That's simply a, in my opinion, simplified and incorrect version of viewing what is essentially two very similar ideologies both in theory and practice.
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ValeriusMaximus is not online. ValeriusMaximus
Joined: 28 May 2013
Total Posts: 425
17 Jan 2014 04:13 PM
I'm not. This is what the political spectrum is. I cannot change it....
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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
17 Jan 2014 04:18 PM
Then that political spectrum is incorrect and outdated and serves no good use in differentiating between two equally barbaric and totalitarian systems, don't you think? The idea that the spectrum is better explained as how much power the government has over its citizens is slowly gaining traction in America and other parts of the world.
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BloxaBrick is not online. BloxaBrick
Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 25309
17 Jan 2014 04:20 PM
"You think fascism is far-right and communism is far-left"

They are. They can have doctrines from either side, but their generic ideas go radically on where they originally came from.
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Komnenos is not online. Komnenos
Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Total Posts: 8299
17 Jan 2014 05:09 PM
It's a compass in my opinion.

Authoritarianism is far north, libertarian ideology is far south.

Free enterprise and economic liberty is far right, command economy and total government control of trade is far left.
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