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Re: Russia hates freedom

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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
09 Dec 2013 05:58 PM
Pretty much every single ruler in Russian history has been autocratic and centralized.

Peter the Great: Absolute monarch who forced western culture on people who didnt want it. Collected teeth from the aristocrats (forcefully)

Catherine the Great: Murdered her husband to gain power. Adored serfdom and did nothing to help free them. Gave serfs away like prize money.

Nicholas II: Used the secret police to suppress democratic protests in 1905 and early 1917. Went into a war nobody wanted.

Lenin: Don't get me started. Seized private property, started the Red Terror, centralized control of everything into government hands, laid the foundation for the stalinist state.

Stalin: You all know Stalin.

Brezhnev: Rolled back many of Khrushchev's quasi-democratic reforms and instead increased censorship and went into ANOTHER war nobody wanted (this time in Afghanistan)

Gorbachev: While hailed by the left as a democratic person, he still wanted to preserve communism believe it or not. Not as bad as the others though.

Yeltsin: Probably the most democratic of all of Russia's leaders, but he was very unpopular and paved the way for Putin.

Putin: Infringes on g-y rights, increased state ownership of economy, censorship and corruption, cronyism.


So yeah, Russians just don't want democratic leaders. They'd rather have bread and circuses with a strong autocrat.
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ArchitectOfEden is not online. ArchitectOfEden
Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 3423
09 Dec 2013 06:02 PM
Hating freedom is a good thing. Freedom allows space for people to go rampant guided by their carnal desires.

If you had grown up in a 100% true anarchist society, you would be a savage carrying a bat tonight instead of sitting in a house with a computer and foruming.
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DesiredShark is not online. DesiredShark
Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 5123
09 Dec 2013 06:03 PM
There is probably millions of Communist aristocrats that are shriveled up from the Communist Party that would want to be President.

Look at Nicolae Ceausescu, he is probably worse than Samuel Doe, Jean-Bedel Bokassa, and Francois Duvalier combined!

I think of Russia more as a Democratic Socialist state.
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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
09 Dec 2013 06:03 PM
I am not an anarchist. I am a libertarian. I support a constitutionally limited government that only does things like run the police system, build roads, and other such necessary things. I by no means believe we should live in an anarchist society.
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ArchitectOfEden is not online. ArchitectOfEden
Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 3423
09 Dec 2013 06:05 PM
@Mid

I know you are a libertarian, I was just saying, people need to understand that freedom is the worst thing that can happen.

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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
09 Dec 2013 06:06 PM
But you're saying that I propose people do whatever they want. That is not what freedom is. Freedom is the freedom to do what they want AS LONG AS it does not harm someone else or infringe on THEIR freedom. I believe in rule of law.
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DesiredShark is not online. DesiredShark
Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 5123
09 Dec 2013 06:06 PM
Hating freedom is a bad thing.

Hating freedom for people to live is a good thing? No.
Who'd feed you? Who'd help you run your country. How will you produce funds?

A little freedom is good, I think freedom to talk to someone different than me is wonderful. It's nice to get a different opinion from someone who is different than me than some "W" supremacist barking at me.
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Telafight is not online. Telafight
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 10466
09 Dec 2013 06:10 PM
Has anybody heard of Libertarian Socialism?
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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
09 Dec 2013 06:11 PM
Oh yes, the oxymoron!
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ArchitectOfEden is not online. ArchitectOfEden
Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 3423
09 Dec 2013 06:11 PM
@Mid

I believe in natural law.

Myeehhh!
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Telafight is not online. Telafight
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 10466
09 Dec 2013 06:14 PM
Oxymoron or not, it's still a valid system.
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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
09 Dec 2013 06:16 PM
Except it's not.

Do you know what an oxymoron is?

It is two inherently contradictory terms

Living dead, for example.
Or intelligent liberal.

It simply cannot be. It makes no sense.

Libertarianism supports free trade, decentralized and small government, and freedom
Socialism supports state-planned economy, centralized big government, and slavery

See why they don't mix?
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ArchitectOfEden is not online. ArchitectOfEden
Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 3423
09 Dec 2013 06:20 PM
>Or intelligent liberal.

lol'd
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Telafight is not online. Telafight
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 10466
09 Dec 2013 06:21 PM
Certain aspects obviously had to be removed to make it work.

Also, capitalism supports slavery.
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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
09 Dec 2013 06:22 PM
Explain to me in detail a) how capitalism could have possibly caused slavery

and also b) how a "libertarian socialist" society would function economically, socially, and politically.
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DesiredShark is not online. DesiredShark
Joined: 28 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 5123
09 Dec 2013 06:25 PM
Telafight, Capitalism DOES NOT support slavery.

Give me proof where Capitalists support slavery.

And, no, Colonial America wasn't Capitalist, it was Monarchist. Y'know, King Georgie the third and such?

And Capitalism supports freedom, moron.

ACTUALLY READ about Capitalism.

Enough said.

I am done.
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Telafight is not online. Telafight
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 10466
09 Dec 2013 06:25 PM
Yes, because wage slavery is freedom
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Telafight is not online. Telafight
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 10466
09 Dec 2013 06:27 PM
Also, in a lot of capitalist societies the right to education is violated as students have to pay and some cannot afford it
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GoblarkGobral is not online. GoblarkGobral
Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Total Posts: 4324
09 Dec 2013 06:28 PM
Peter sounds freakin' awesome!
Catherine is a woman, so she should have never ruled anything.
Nicholas is meh.
Lenin really wasn't that bad, not as bad as Stalin.
Stalin... dayum, I couldn't even kill that many people if I tried.
Brezhnev went to war with Afghanistan apparently, so he can't be that bad.
Gorbachev has a weird name, shame on him.
Who cares if a leader is unpopular? Apparently he was the most democratic, you should like that.
Putin infringes on GrAY rights, huh? HELL YEAH!
Oh right, and stupid generalization on the circus thing, that's a stupid stereotype.
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Telafight is not online. Telafight
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 10466
09 Dec 2013 06:29 PM
the right to food is also equally violated in many capitalist countries
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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
09 Dec 2013 06:30 PM
@Tela

You do not a "right to education" or a "right to a job."

You earn them.

Stop thinking like an entitled spoiled brat. That's why so many people feel helpless, it's because they refuse to work hard and pull themselves up by the bootstraps.
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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
09 Dec 2013 06:30 PM
Right to FOOD? Oh god, on and on with the entitlements! Tell me, how do you plan to fulfill this "right to food?" By stealing from perfectly legal businesses and giving it to those who don't work and/or suck at working?
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Telafight is not online. Telafight
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 10466
09 Dec 2013 06:31 PM
"and also b) how a "libertarian socialist" society would function economically, socially, and politically."

I'll be honest, I don't really know much about it. As I said earlier, they probably would have to have removed some elements so that they don't contradict themselves.
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Midmyst is not online. Midmyst
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Total Posts: 4803
09 Dec 2013 06:32 PM
No, apparently you're a libertarian socialist.

Explain to me what that is and what a society under it would look like. Just a paragraph or two.
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Telafight is not online. Telafight
Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Total Posts: 10466
09 Dec 2013 06:34 PM
The right to education is a recognized entitlement recognized by the International Convenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural rights. Nearly all countries (including the violators) are part of this group.
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