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Re: The Concept Of Unfair Forts: Spawn Layouts

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kungfuman32 is not online. kungfuman32
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Total Posts: 9172
21 Nov 2013 11:06 AM
TL;DR, scroll down I have a shorter 5 sentence paragraph below.

Let me get this straight, I don’t insult anyone here. I don’t talk about anyone here. This is just giving you a better understanding on why people think some forts are unfair and others don’t. I’m not defending unfair forts I’m just saying NO FORT ARE FAIR. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE A FAIR FORT.

I have been lurking /CG/ames a lot and noticed there is one touchy subject that gets everyone up in flames. This is the subject of unfair forts. Everyone has different views on unfair forts and why some forts are fair and why others are not. Some people think Forts should be fair and others should think they should be unfair. I would like to lay down my views on this touchy subject.

First thing we got to do, is look at what makes a fort unfair. Would it be, Defenders spawning inside the base, Defenders having better guns or is it just plainly that defenders have a group only door. The answer is EVERYTHING. Nothing you can do can make a fort fair in the slightest. You can have equal teams, equal spawn distance, and all the same guns and it still would not be fair. Why is this, because one team will always be better than the other? Either by a long shot or a short mile and this makes it unfair for the other team because they’re going up against guys of high skill level. You’re probably thinking “But that’s the whole point to see who is better”. This is wrong; if any of you /CG/ed long enough as I have you would know this is not the case.

When groups first came out, it was about joining up with people you share the same interest in, hanging out and talking, but someone went and made it into something fun and violent. This is when the Clan Warfare came into existence; this is also when the standard base came into place.

They called it a FORT or a BASE or an OUTPOST. The Concept was very simple Defenders spawned inside and Hostiles spawned outside. They were given guns or swords and you played the objective while kindly following the rules set by the defending team. It was not about who had the most skill but was about Defenders setting a challenge and asking the groups around to complete that challenge. Nobody complained because we all knew the base was going to be hard. Some raged, some quit but nobody complained because they knew when they set foot in that server you were not in for a fair fight.

The more clans fought, evolved and grew the more the harder outpost became until eventually people started complaining about FORTS, or BASES, or OUTPOST being TOO unfair and decided they should be more fair. This was true because well, when Defenders start spawning with MINIguns that do one hit kills while Raiders had only a pistol and a piece of steel you know something had to be done. This spawned a new age of Clans and what will be the basis of how we make our FORT, BASE, OUTPOST today.

FORTS have only three spawn layouts no matter what. This is really simple to learn and remember so you can skim through this.

Team A Spawns in front of Team B and they both rush to C
Team A and Team B Spawn on the same side at the same distance and the rush to the C
Team A and Team B Spawns on different sides of C.

Pretty simple, this is how we classify a fair spawning system, with the first one being the most unfair. Dear god help you if you if you choose layout 1 and put a wall around them.
Now let me give you some examples of this spawn system.

R.A.A’s spawn system would follow the first layout. RAA spawns in front of Raiders spawn. This is ok but becomes a problem because it forces Raiders to push through RAA to get to the terminal.

RSF’s spawn system would follow the second layout. Both sides spawn on the same side and both sides have the same distance to travel.

UAF’s spawn system would follow the third layout. Both teams spawn on different sides of the same base with each lane inching onto one side of the base; UAF having their spawn location closer than the Raiders.

These spawn systems seem fair and you can argue that they are but a few factors can end up giving one side an advantage over the other. They also either give the defenders a better chance to defend or make it where whoever has the most members on their team wins.

Now let’s take WIJ’s spawn layout for example. Yes I’m WIJ but I’m not going to talk about how it is fair.WIJ’s spawn layout believe it or not follows the same one as RAA’s. The only difference is they have a wall surrounding them. This means just like Raiders who raid RAA, they’ll have to push past WIJ’s spawn to capture the objective. When most people raid they see WIJ spawning inside the base, I see WIJ spawning with a wall around them. (I will talk about objectives later)

Now let’s talk about RSF’s layout. This layout in my opinion is terrible. Sure it seems fair, two teams spawn on equal sides and yes that could be good if it was done right. The way it’s done is it makes teams fight too early. Nobody has a real chance to capture the objective and whoever has the most members is going to dominate the other side. This will also cause for the tactic called spawn trapping or spawn camping. The best way to avoid this is keep the two teams from making contact too early. Give them a chance to walk out without having to say hello to the other team with bullets and guns.

Lastly let us take UAF’s spawn layout and how it can seem fair but make it completely unfair because of one factor. UAF’s spawn layout follows the third layout style. This seams fair, and yes I actually do prefer this style, but 1 factor can change the base unfairness to a max. Team imbalance, can change if the base is unfair or not. This is simple because yes they both spawn at equal ends (not really) one team will be able to get more members to the base than the other team. This will also cause for the team with the most members to spew off to the other teams side spawn camping them.

So let’s review, no matter how you place your spawns there is only three Layouts to actually choose from. Even if you choose these layout styles other factors can instantly make the spawn layout irrelevant to how fair or unfair the base it. If you can factor in that then dear god help you when people start to complain about something else like The Weapons. This is something I will talk about next and why weapons can make and outpost fair or unfair. Do you agree or disagree with this thread, state your opinion below.

Also there was never a TL;DR I just lied to you.
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EmperorLexus is not online. EmperorLexus
Joined: 24 Jul 2012
Total Posts: 6641
21 Nov 2013 11:08 AM
tl;dr

-Prosperity : roblox.com/My/Groups.aspx?gid=985273 [ xF = lexusofemperor ]
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AdantinumForge is not online. AdantinumForge
Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Total Posts: 8877
21 Nov 2013 11:09 AM
Kk
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cashpop is not online. cashpop
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 2984
21 Nov 2013 11:10 AM
forts were never fair yeah
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HistoricalMassacre is not online. HistoricalMassacre
Joined: 04 May 2012
Total Posts: 1610
21 Nov 2013 11:22 AM
Wow.
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Duelingwarlord is not online. Duelingwarlord
Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Total Posts: 22333
21 Nov 2013 11:25 AM
tl;dr

However, when you are "raiding" you don't expect a 100% fair spawning, because
it is the enemies turf not yours.
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cashpop is not online. cashpop
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 2984
21 Nov 2013 11:28 AM
man you guys are lazy readers

this isn't even a lot to read
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Sancuu is not online. Sancuu
Joined: 30 Dec 2012
Total Posts: 17042
21 Nov 2013 11:29 AM
Tinpot Brigade is going to allow raiders to spawn on top of the terminal, and us 1000 studs away, because we're so skilled...
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Nazgrim is not online. Nazgrim
Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2507
21 Nov 2013 11:34 AM
you call the first layout unfair but it's TSU's layout except TSU spawns right by the terminal as well as in the path of the raiders.
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RyanTheUnicorn is not online. RyanTheUnicorn
Joined: 09 Jul 2009
Total Posts: 5381
21 Nov 2013 11:40 AM
lt;dr
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kungfuman32 is not online. kungfuman32
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Total Posts: 9172
21 Nov 2013 12:01 PM
TSU's layout is the same as WIJs with the same objective int theory. You're not trying to capture the BASE, you're trying to capture whats inside the base. When it comes to UAF's or RSF's you're trying to capture the whole base and hold it. Also I did the math, TSU and WIJ spawn about roughly the same distance from their objective.
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XxcelticwarriorxX is not online. XxcelticwarriorxX
Joined: 26 May 2011
Total Posts: 5294
21 Nov 2013 12:16 PM
Lovely, great summary of spawning and base fairness. I hope I don't miss your next one.



//:Message hidden where the sun doesn't shine, use tire iron to receive. The Swag is found in the hips.
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Nazgrim is not online. Nazgrim
Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2507
21 Nov 2013 12:55 PM
yeah but you need to hold the TSU objective for 5 minutes iirc (1 min to capture 4 mins hold to win)
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kungfuman32 is not online. kungfuman32
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Total Posts: 9172
21 Nov 2013 12:56 PM
Naz, capture speed depends on how many TSU on at the base. It takes 1 minute for one lone TSU to recapture it.

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