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Re: How about arguments that aren't one-liners? [Tza]

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NewbControl114 is not online. NewbControl114
Joined: 09 May 2009
Total Posts: 10303
08 Oct 2013 11:26 PM
Tza is coming out of it's developmental state and taking an immediately disciplinary turn towards a very strict path, and suddenly there's a massive explosion of pro-Tza and anti-Tza comments. Seriously? It's been only about a month or two into development and actual formation. Everyone is making assumptions about Tza without backing up their evidence.

There's only one thing separating a debate from a flame war, and that's evidence. An argument with strong evidence completely obliterates the other arguments, and conversely, one without evidence (and only biased emotion-influenced stances) devolve into flame-wars (A fairly nice piece of evidence is here, a current two-pager started by Tenal which was near-instantly driven to a flame-war: http://www.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=115044614) and become pointless for everyone, aside for maybe the moderators (who I can assume are paid proportionally to how many bans they make in a day).

As a resident Spawn of Tza, I can say that the past few weeks have been extremely lax and laid-back. After being a smurf (a member of about a week or two) of V O I D, and a resident Arcen member (I joined right as it launched into it's bout with Civil, so near the end I suppose), I was shocked to see that ISOLAYTOR (now Tzakouza) was suddenly taking a very laid-back outlook on clan life. Tzakouza just doesn't roll that way, which I could tell from his past clans alone. Setting aside anything he did on C&G, because, let's face it, C&G is a no-man's land for even the most disciplined soldier, I didn't expect ISOLAYTOR to keep his clan so immature and unwelcoming for long. If you guys had looked at the facts, used that cute little rasin-looking object filling your skull (more commonly referred to as a brain), you would have seen it too. If you did, Bravo. If you didn't, Congratulations.

So, Tzakouza's picked a rather strict set of laws to accompany his reform into the post-developmental state. Good for him. First-time rules are often the most brittle, and often break when tested against the clan's new residents. People quit, others who are willing to follow join to replace. The rules change, and become more testable against the clan. You have to expect brittle and rough outlines for the first drafts of things. That's why a lot of time is spent in your English (?) class editing other people's essay: To see what doesn't fit from a perspective that doesn't hold a preconceived bias against it. People who read their own essays will either optimistically see their essays, or in this case, rules, as wonderful, or pessimistically view them as a complete failure. Editors help to pick out the bad seeds and fill the spaces with better, more concrete substance.

After looking over the rules, I can see a lot of logic put in to Tzakouza's first draft of rules. He wants members of his clan to be intelligent, resourceful, skilled, mature, even when not in the clan. He wants the names to be related to Tza. For instance, Flammus is notoriously linked to C&G because he/she/it has been here a long time and idolized by any up-and-coming C&Gers. Tzakouza wants people to remember Tza's members as elite. The only thing I feel that I will have a hard time adjusting to is the mandatory uniform rule during the whole of your off-duty sessions. I have other uniforms I like to wear when I'm not on duty, so I don't think a clan should punish the members for not being in uniform when not actively participating in the clan. I wouldn't want someone who acted poorly off duty to be forced to wear my uniforms, because suddenly my uniforms look bad in the eyes of another group of people.

If you don't want to be a part of an elitist group, that's fine, you don't have to join. But if you're not going to at least try it out, you're not going to be able to form an argument while looking objectively at both sides of the argument. I know most of you don't actually care (I'd be surprised if half of you read this whole argument and commented accordingly below. If you do, good for you), but it just seems really lame when you start and end a subthread saying that Tza was, is, and will forever be bad simply because you didn't like the way the rules looked at their revelations to the public.

That's called judging. You can't help it, but you should be ready to change your mind when you've been proved wrong.

That's all I gotta say. I'd ask that you stopped being so judgmental without at least proving your arguments with something that isn't emotional bull.

Thanks.

tl;dr: Go read the article, you lazy bum. Life won't hand out one-sentence summaries on a silver platter.
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NewbControl114 is not online. NewbControl114
Joined: 09 May 2009
Total Posts: 10303
08 Oct 2013 11:30 PM
Bumping, to speed up the hasty removal of that nasty page-extender thread.
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solticex is not online. solticex
Joined: 14 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 5267
08 Oct 2013 11:30 PM
[ Content Deleted ]
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McVoss is not online. McVoss
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Total Posts: 2030
08 Oct 2013 11:31 PM
#WordWall

[ Jordan ] 1̶2̶/̶1̶8̶/̶1̶3̶ Twitch.
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Jacobiesoccer09 is not online. Jacobiesoccer09
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 6055
08 Oct 2013 11:32 PM
tl;dr
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NewbControl114 is not online. NewbControl114
Joined: 09 May 2009
Total Posts: 10303
08 Oct 2013 11:32 PM
@McVoss

If I alluded my argument to a small country, and I had to either defend my borders with a Word Wall or a One-Liner picket fence, I'd pick the Word Wall.

You get my drift?
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solticex is not online. solticex
Joined: 14 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 5267
08 Oct 2013 11:32 PM
[ Content Deleted ]
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McVoss is not online. McVoss
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Total Posts: 2030
08 Oct 2013 11:33 PM
I'd throw up a one line picket fence and move

[ Jordan ] 1̶2̶/̶1̶8̶/̶1̶3̶ Twitch.
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NewbControl114 is not online. NewbControl114
Joined: 09 May 2009
Total Posts: 10303
08 Oct 2013 11:34 PM
That tells me that you're a psychological sheep, because you would rather move to a better place (i.e. follow a better argument) because you don't want to make one of your own.
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NewbControl114 is not online. NewbControl114
Joined: 09 May 2009
Total Posts: 10303
08 Oct 2013 11:36 PM
It's almost as if C&G prefers stupid off-topic posts to actual reasonable thought.
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combokenx is not online. combokenx
Joined: 05 Jan 2010
Total Posts: 9093
08 Oct 2013 11:51 PM
One liners and a winning smile,
will you get you further then every word you could ever file.
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ROBLOXVETERAN1 is not online. ROBLOXVETERAN1
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Total Posts: 5529
08 Oct 2013 11:54 PM
Some things do not require many words, only much thought.

☠ \M/ ☠
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NewbControl114 is not online. NewbControl114
Joined: 09 May 2009
Total Posts: 10303
08 Oct 2013 11:56 PM
Well, I suppose it could be hypothesized that a short argument may exist on Planet Earth that actually does it's job of utilizing every single word to convey a powerful message that will shatter the fabric of logical philosophy.

But I have extremely high doubts that such a thing would exist anywhere on this website, ever.
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VVarpendeshia is not online. VVarpendeshia
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Total Posts: 561
08 Oct 2013 11:57 PM
Vekul is gone so the TZA TS is bad.
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Vulturite is not online. Vulturite
Joined: 08 Sep 2013
Total Posts: 4107
09 Oct 2013 12:04 AM
Humans are judgemental by nature. We are trained by society from a young age to find the differences we have compared to another, rather than compare our common interests. Hence, this is the cause of many arguments. I have to give you some respect for providing an argument that is actually readable and not filled with the usual biased garbage. Kudos to you.
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Hypershockwave is not online. Hypershockwave
Joined: 04 May 2012
Total Posts: 4948
09 Oct 2013 02:30 AM
[ Content Deleted ]
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