pepper0
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| 19 Aug 2013 06:01 PM |
This argument just baffles me. I don't understand it.
The Paris Commune, which was brought about after the fall of the Second French Empire, and the rise of the Third Republic, has been praised by Karl Marx himself, but only survived for two months. - Failed attempt at Communism.
The Soviet Union, before his death, Lenin was considering to steer the country toward capitalism for a while because his attempt at communism wasn't working as he hoped. Then collectivization of farms under Joseph Stalin, didn't work out so very well. The leaders that came after Stalin turned into any other despot that ruled many of the nations of the world. Gorbachev saw that this sort of communism wasn't working so well so he launch Glasnost and Perestroika. He hoped to give socialism/communism a human face, but instead result in a dissolution of the Soviet Union, and the rise of Free market economies in the former soviet republics. -Failed attempt at Communism.
Cuba, There are still elite classes that better healthcare than the lower classes. -Failed attempt at communism
Communism has been tried many times, it just have failed at each attempt. How I see it, those that say communism has never been attempted, will never admit its been attempted until it succeeds. If they want something that legitimately works that has some of their views, they can try Social Democracy. |
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pepper0
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| 19 Aug 2013 06:02 PM |
| Forgot this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExhV7_k83Zo |
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| 19 Aug 2013 06:03 PM |
Let's not forget the most messed up version of Communism ever, Maoism
So much of a failure that it has a different classification |
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pepper0
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| 19 Aug 2013 06:06 PM |
How could I forget that?
They took that class struggle thing very seriously, did they? |
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eTempest
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| 19 Aug 2013 06:37 PM |
| I agree with you, but if communism always fails and turns out a certain way, isn't that form of failure considered communism? |
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pepper0
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eTempest
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| 19 Aug 2013 06:44 PM |
| Okay so communism's primary goal is to have equality throughout yes? It never works out that way however because higher social classes are always formed. The people in power manipulate the system into making themselves rich. If this always happens then how come this isn't the definition of communism? |
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pepper0
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| 19 Aug 2013 06:49 PM |
Ah, I see, that is a very good question.
It just brings in the the concept that you shouldn't judge things in theory but what they actually produce in the end.
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eTempest
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| 19 Aug 2013 06:53 PM |
| Yes, it does. It makes me think of other things we automatically associate that concept with, but I can't really come up with anything. |
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:02 PM |
youre referencing a commune that was attempted before karl marxx wrote the communist manifesto
im against communism as well but thats a pretty ignorant thing to do |
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pepper0
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:05 PM |
The Communist Manifesto was published in 1848.
The Paris Commune was founded in the 1870s |
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:06 PM |
o
my bad
either way it wasnt "real communism" |
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pepper0
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:12 PM |
| Marx regarded it as a "dictatorship of the proletariate". How much more 'real communism' could you get? |
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:13 PM |
| well considering that the commune claimed it had the authority to govern all of france, i dont think that qualifies as real communism |
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pepper0
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:17 PM |
| It may have claimed it, but it only had control over the territory it, well, controlled. Since the new Republican government was working much better, the commune fell. |
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:19 PM |
| It still didn't have a communist mindset which is required for a true communist country |
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:20 PM |
The Paris Commune, which was brought about after the fall of the Second French Empire, and the rise of the Third Republic, has been praised by Karl Marx himself, but only survived for two months. - Failed attempt at Communism.
That was an attempt at socialism, not communism. And it was established during a war
The Soviet Union, before his death, Lenin was considering to steer the country toward capitalism for a while because his attempt at communism wasn't working as he hoped. Then collectivization of farms under Joseph Stalin, didn't work out so very well. The leaders that came after Stalin turned into any other despot that ruled many of the nations of the world. Gorbachev saw that this sort of communism wasn't working so well so he launch Glasnost and Perestroika. He hoped to give socialism/communism a human face, but instead result in a dissolution of the Soviet Union, and the rise of Free market economies in the former soviet republics. -Failed attempt at Communism.
Joseph Stalin made the Soviet Union state capitalist, not socialist. And Lenin never considered capitalism
Cuba, There are still elite classes that better healthcare than the lower classes. -Failed attempt at communism
But Cuba doesn't practice communism |
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pepper0
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:20 PM |
| You can judge it for what they did within the territory they controlled. |
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pepper0
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:23 PM |
That was an attempt at socialism, not communism. And it was established during a war
Communism, Socialism these two are juxtaposed.
Joseph Stalin made the Soviet Union state capitalist, not socialist. And Lenin never considered capitalism
Because their original theories, they figure out, would not work
But Cuba doesn't practice communism
...Anymore |
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:23 PM |
| So if I claim I run a fascist government and it in reality has no power then it still counts as fascism???? |
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:25 PM |
How was Russia under Stalin capitalist
Are you stupid it was basically an oligarchy run by wealthy landowners who lobbied Stalin and his advisors |
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pepper0
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:28 PM |
So if I claim I run a fascist government and it in reality has no power then it still counts as fascism???? ---- No, we just get a stupid fascist. |
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:30 PM |
"Communism, Socialism these two are juxtaposed."
Communism has no classes, no government, no currency. Socialism has a government and currency and the economy is controlled by the government
"Because their original theories, they figure out, would not work"
The later leaders of The Soviet Union did because Joseph Stalin messed it up
"Anymore"
It never practiced communism |
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pepper0
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:32 PM |
@super
In that case, you're probably looking for the communism that existed in Cambodia. |
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| 19 Aug 2013 07:33 PM |
No, we just get a stupid fascist. ---------------------------- it wouldnt count as a fascist government exactly
same thing as the paris commune except with reversed ideals. |
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