blocco
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| Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 10:23 AM |
I have rolled a die 200 times in my Dice Roll Simulation place locally. I have removed all pips for the purpose of testing bias. And I got these results:
Roll History String: 32246246565342653132412123651536562644556211455346221242656423466366666466611354534661213664355443614114446431111163353656511465453616451126426156233264456143226644562561364445552336315664541246536636 Face/Roll/Pct.: 1 2 3 4 5 6 29 24 28 37 31 51 14.5% 12% 14% 18.5% 15.5% 25.5%
It appears that the side with 6 pips (back face) appears to be biased.
The sides/pips (for reference): 1: Front 2: Left 3: Top 4: Bottom 5: Right 6: Back
What do you guys think?
~blocco
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| 09 Aug 2013 10:24 AM |
| I think you need to roll it more times |
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Trioxide
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| Joined: 29 Mar 2011 |
| Total Posts: 32902 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 10:25 AM |
Yeah, roll it at least 10 000 times, then you get de results.
Change your font: http://www.roblox.com/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=109051027 |
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blocco
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| Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 10:47 AM |
| I'm going to roll it to 1200 and re-post results |
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gijsbel11
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| Joined: 07 Feb 2009 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 10:48 AM |
| if you flip a coin 100 times, there is a change that it lands 100 times on 1 side, but that doesn't mean it actual does 100% of the time. I think you need to do more rolls. |
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| 09 Aug 2013 10:54 AM |
| But the chance that you flip a coin 100 times and land on the same side, seems like a good reason to say its going to keep lading on that side |
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blocco
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| Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
| Total Posts: 29474 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 11:09 AM |
Roll History String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
Look for trends if you want.
Roll Data, grouped: 1 2 3 4 5 6 211 197 203 193 174 222 17.58% 16.42% 16.92% 16.08% 14.50% 18.50%
The rolls *should* tend to 200 The percents *should* tend to 16.67%
There is still a bias of 6, and 5 is not rolled very often. 1/6 (opp. sides) are highest. 3/4 (opp. sides) tend toward the middle. 2/5 (opp. sides) are the most different, with 2 being the second closest to the middle.
~ blocco |
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stravant
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| Joined: 22 Oct 2007 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 11:35 AM |
@blocco
The above stats are within the ranges are within the variation you could expect to see given an unbiased random number generator as well. They don't actually prove a bias. |
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| 09 Aug 2013 11:40 AM |
OK, well, that's great.
So... how would one add parts to the die (pips) without affecting the die's results? |
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blocco
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| Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 11:42 AM |
@stravant: That's good to note
Now I'm rolling with pips (no bodyforce) to 1200 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 11:44 AM |
| That's what I call real randomness. |
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dop5k5
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| Joined: 18 Mar 2013 |
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blocco
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| Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 11:48 AM |
| @dop: I'm using the physics engine though, looking for bias to make my dice as fair as possible |
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stravant
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| Joined: 22 Oct 2007 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 11:49 AM |
| You should roll about 10,000 times if you actually want to more prove the amount of bias to those faces that you are speculating. |
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blocco
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| Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 11:50 AM |
I'll roll 10000 when I'm asleep
For now, 1200 will be fine |
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blocco
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| Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 12:06 PM |
PIPS W/O BODYFORCE:
History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rouped Data: 1 2 3 4 5 6 201 211 207 171 208 202 16.75% 17.58% 17.25% 14.25% 17.33% 16.83% |
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morash
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| Joined: 22 May 2010 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 12:20 PM |
Your data seems different there then your other rolls
@gijsbel11: There is also the chance, that if the physics are right, a coin can also land on neither side and stay on the edge of the coin which would make flipping a coin not a 50/50 chance but rather a 49.9/49.9/0.2 chance. |
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blocco
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| Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 12:31 PM |
| ^ If you have rotation going in all directions, it's more like 49.99999/49.99999/0.00002 |
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Xtreme101
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| Joined: 03 Jan 2009 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 12:34 PM |
| Instead of looking for biased pips, why not look for unbiased ones? By that, I mean the lesser-generated. |
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blocco
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| Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 12:49 PM |
| What exactly do you mean, Xtreme |
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| 09 Aug 2013 02:03 PM |
He means look for ones that are biased towards not being picked.
like they're rolled less than others |
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blocco
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| Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 02:06 PM |
| Four, the side with four pips |
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NXTBoy
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| Joined: 25 Aug 2008 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 02:11 PM |
| Where is the randomness introduced in your die rolling simulation? If I throw the same dice with the same state each time, I'd expect the same result every time. |
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blocco
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| Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
| Total Posts: 29474 |
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| 09 Aug 2013 02:11 PM |
| I add random RotVelocity and random positions within a certain range |
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