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| 02 Jul 2013 06:30 PM |
The ROBLOX Wikia is an unofficial ROBLOX wiki that has been up since 2007 and on which I have become an administrator. It is more active than the official wiki and it can be edited by anyone. Back in the beginning of the year 2013, I have created, on that wiki, a complex object system that I personally believe to be better than the official wiki's object system. Using the API dump and a program I wrote, I have generated documentation for the entire API. I have also taken measures for a namespace to be added to the wiki where classes can be documented.
Documentation for the entire API has been generated automatically by a program I wrote, but the documentation generated cannot yet be put into separate class pages because while all the data in the API dump for classes and their members is already generated, description of the members such as methods and properties is not written. There are some thousands of descriptions to write in order for the entire API to be documented. However, since the object system is well documented (unlike the official wiki's system) and since all the hard work has been done automatically by a program, it would be feasible for a team of ten scripters to create complete documentation for the entire ROBLOX API in only some months. That's something the official wiki has been completely incapable of doing and couldn't do because of lack of support of certain extensions (in particular the ParserFunctions extension) and inactivity. It is also something that would be very useful.
I am therefore asking for help from scripters on this forum to come to the ROBLOX Wikia (roblox dot wikia dot com) and start being active here so that we can start writing documentation, and also tutorials and other scripting resources. I cannot do this all by myself. |
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Oysi
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| Joined: 06 Jul 2009 |
| Total Posts: 9058 |
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| 02 Jul 2013 06:58 PM |
> Why not just edit the existing wiki?
Because it is completely inactive and doesn't have the ParserFunctions extension, without which it is impossible to create an acceptable object system.
> and you could simply ask them to add things
Documenting the whole API requires more than that.
> or you could apply to become a writer
I did, many times.
> Secondly, there is more to a wiki than just api information. You need actual tutorials.
Tell that to every single person other than me. I'm the only one, other than Tenal, who seems to be caring about tutorials. I'm not forgetting tutorials; I'm dealing with both documentation and tutorials. However, this specific thread is about documentation. Both are needed, and I'm perfectly aware of that, hence why I wrote my own book on ROBLOX game development. |
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| 02 Jul 2013 07:00 PM |
| I'm not really sold on the unofficial wiki. What's in there that I'll be able to use that's not in the official one? Obscure API stuff? |
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| 02 Jul 2013 07:04 PM |
@Maelstronomer
An object system that doesn't completely suck, API documentation that is actually up to date (since it is generated automatically), a wiki that actually gets improvements other than just occasional updates and small fixes, and some other things. |
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| 02 Jul 2013 07:22 PM |
| Ya the official one is a bit dated. Good luck I don't think I can contribute to it personally. |
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Oysi
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| Joined: 06 Jul 2009 |
| Total Posts: 9058 |
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woot3
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| Joined: 10 Nov 2008 |
| Total Posts: 3599 |
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| 02 Jul 2013 07:56 PM |
I am purely not a fan of that wiki simply because of its bias, it slurs my group which is a real issue because anybody can edit it meaning anybody can say anything.
There are a lot of issues.
Really the admins need to support the wiki staff a bit more. |
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blocco
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| Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
| Total Posts: 29474 |
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| 02 Jul 2013 09:09 PM |
| I have an account there already |
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LuaWeaver
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| Joined: 28 Jun 2013 |
| Total Posts: 213 |
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| 02 Jul 2013 11:56 PM |
Wiki(a)s shouldn't be for tutorials - they should be for documentation. Tutorials should be kept separate. Use, for example, LuaLearners.
while obamacare() do benefitMiddleClass() end --LuaWeaver |
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Oysi
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| Joined: 06 Jul 2009 |
| Total Posts: 9058 |
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blocco
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| Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
| Total Posts: 29474 |
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| 03 Jul 2013 12:00 AM |
^ He's right, because he's Oysi, and Oysi's always right. Even when you think he's wrong, he silently modified your memories to make you believe he's right, because he's just that awesome. No, awesome is too little of word. He's Oysi. That's it. |
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dekkonot
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| Joined: 22 Dec 2010 |
| Total Posts: 6685 |
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| 03 Jul 2013 12:12 AM |
| I don't know. I'm a writer on LuaLearners, and I seem to make good edits. x3 |
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HaxHelper
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| Joined: 19 Dec 2009 |
| Total Posts: 1208 |
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| 03 Jul 2013 12:13 AM |
lualearners can be very misleading
don't use or promote pls |
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dekkonot
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| Joined: 22 Dec 2010 |
| Total Posts: 6685 |
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| 03 Jul 2013 12:21 AM |
HERE ME SCRIPTERS. USE LUALEARNERS FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO, AND WE CAN TRANSFORM THE INTERNET.
Exactly like that, Hax? |
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LuaWeaver
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| Joined: 28 Jun 2013 |
| Total Posts: 213 |
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| 03 Jul 2013 01:06 AM |
The old information was misleading. We have a new lessons site.
while obamacare() do benefitMiddleClass() end --LuaWeaver |
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Legend26
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| Joined: 08 Sep 2008 |
| Total Posts: 10586 |
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| 03 Jul 2013 01:59 AM |
| I like how /lesson?id=72 is basically a copy of the wiki's Normal_Identities page. |
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1waffle1
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| Joined: 16 Oct 2007 |
| Total Posts: 16381 |
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| 03 Jul 2013 02:26 AM |
| I have never seen anything designed to help completely inexperienced people to learn something new that was actually accurate from an advanced perspective. Details are always dumbed down so much that they are wrong. |
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| 03 Jul 2013 02:37 AM |
Are we all just going to overlook the fact that OP thinks he needs an extension to write pages on the wiki?
You click two buttons, literally, and the page is there. You just make it. It's super simple. There's absolutely no reason to add any "objects" to the mix. You're far over-complicating it. |
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LuaWeaver
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| Joined: 28 Jun 2013 |
| Total Posts: 213 |
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| 03 Jul 2013 05:16 AM |
"I like how /lesson?id=72 is basically a copy of the wiki's Normal_Identities page."
That's not really a tutorial, but more of documentation. All documentation, should it be accurate, will look very similar.
while obamacare() do benefitMiddleClass() end --LuaWeaver |
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| 03 Jul 2013 04:52 PM |
> Are we all just going to overlook the fact that OP thinks he needs an extension to write pages on the wiki? > > You click two buttons, literally, and the page is there. You just make it. It's super simple. There's absolutely no reason to add any "objects" to the mix. You're far over-complicating it.
You need templates for it to be consistent, and you need them to automatically update the documentation as well. |
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| 03 Jul 2013 04:56 PM |
> That's not really a tutorial, but more of documentation. All documentation, should it be accurate, will look very similar.
The person who wrote that lesson didn't actually write it but copied it right off the wiki. He didn't do any research, and that is obvious because the page has exactly the same inaccuracies as the wiki page.
LuaLearners' lesson website is terrible and has terrible lessons. I hoped the new tutorial system would help, but it didn't. Even the official wiki, which isn't worth much, is better than LuaLearners' lessons website, and I don't have much hope for it to ever improve. I support LuaLearners, but I'm not going to recommend to learners something like that, because it'd cause them more harm than good. |
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coolbob44
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| Joined: 26 Nov 2009 |
| Total Posts: 1649 |
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| 03 Jul 2013 07:28 PM |
The LuaLearners Lessons website is currently in Beta. We are working on writing more lessons, while keeping the lessons that we have up to date. Our policies for writers clearly state that copying information is not allowed and is a direct violation of the terms of service. However, you must understand that documentation is documentation, and we can't just make that stuff up.
Our lessons help people. You can claim that my website is horrible all you want, but all I see is positive from the people who are actually trying to learn. Heck, someone JUST posted this on our wall:
"Wow, these lessons really help. I just created my own KO based GUI Shop. It may not be a big deal for you guys, but it is for me :P"
You can sit around all day and call the lessons website "terrible", but until you can tell me why the website is terrible, I'm going to assume you're just making empty claims. The LuaLearners Lessons website was in production (off and on) for about four months, and is designed specifically for teaching a programming language.
I care about teaching people. If I didn't, I wouldn't have been doing this for almost three years now. I care about the accuracy of the lessons, and how they are affecting the future of ROBLOX places and scripters. But something you need to remember is that our lesson content comes (for the most part) right out of our community. I work hard to make sure it is easy to understand and accurate, but I am a very busy person and I just don't have time to sit around all day and work on it. If you feel like the lessons could be improved, then you can fill out a writer application and do it yourself. Some lessons don't provide the level of depth I would like to see, but they still give the general idea and I'll be working with our staff and writers in order to see that it happens before we fully release the lessons website.
None of you have provided any valid problems with LuaLearners lessons. If you do, I'll be glad to fix any problems, but this has really gone on long enough. If you're going to make claims about my website, back it up with proof. |
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| 03 Jul 2013 07:40 PM |
@coolbob44
The documentation in that particular tutorial was made up, because many parts of it are outdated and reflect the outdated state of the page on the wiki.
> Our lessons help people. You can claim that my website is horrible all you want, but all I see is positive from the people who are actually trying to learn. Heck, someone JUST posted this on our wall:
It's easy to teach things that are useless to people and to make them think that they're really learning something. Just because they give positive feedback doesn't mean your lessons are useful.
> You can sit around all day and call the lessons website "terrible", but until you can tell me why the website is terrible, I'm going to assume you're just making empty claims. The LuaLearners Lessons website was in production (off and on) for about four months, and is designed specifically for teaching a programming language.
The website is fine, but it is the tutorial system itself that isn't really good. You can't do much about that, though: the ideal would be to actually have a wiki, and there are many very good wiki systems already, so having you create one wouldn't exactly be useful.
> I care about teaching people. If I didn't, I wouldn't have been doing this for almost three years now. I care about the accuracy of the lessons, and how they are affecting the future of ROBLOX places and scripters. But something you need to remember is that our lesson content comes (for the most part) right out of our community. I work hard to make sure it is easy to understand and accurate, but I am a very busy person and I just don't have time to sit around all day and work on it. If you feel like the lessons could be improved, then you can fill out a writer application and do it yourself. Some lessons don't provide the level of depth I would like to see, but they still give the general idea and I'll be working with our staff and writers in order to see that it happens before we fully release the lessons website.
Sorry if you understood what I meant to say wrong. I am completely convinced already that you just want to help, and this is why I support LuaLearners in the first place. I am not against LuaLearners: I myself am one of the only persons on this forum and in the scripting community who seem to really care about improving the learning resources for ROBLOX. I'm saying your website is terrible because it really is, not because I don't support it. I don't want to recommend it to people, and that is why I say that it is terrible. Of course, you cannot do much about it; you created the lessons website but you cannot create every lesson on it and make sure everything is perfect.
I have already sent a writer application after seeing some posts on the wall of MrNicNac's Scripter Guild. I haven't gotten to see your system for writing lessons (I have used the old one, but not the new one), but I think I would personally prefer to write tutorials on a wiki than on a lesson website like that one. |
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Legend26
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| Joined: 08 Sep 2008 |
| Total Posts: 10586 |
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| 03 Jul 2013 10:17 PM |
| What's wrong with the wiki's identity page specifically? Was it always wrong, in what way? Or is it just wrong since the new updates? |
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