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Re: "What is mine is mine, NO ONE MAY HAVE IT!"

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Haerdune is not online. Haerdune
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 474
05 Jun 2013 02:38 PM
That is the kind of society I feel many countries have, they make a system where greed and competition are REWARDED. Everyone's possessions are clearly marked, anyone who dare crosses that line is punished. When we die, we give it all away, and I've seen cases of people almost fighting over it like children, showing little respect to the actual deceased person.

It's a system of greed, fueled by separation and hatred. People have done horrible things in their greed, greed is a poison of the soul. Why not a system fueled by compassion and sharing, instead of greed?

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MaximumMinimizer is not online. MaximumMinimizer
Joined: 26 May 2013
Total Posts: 1629
05 Jun 2013 02:41 PM
Example? I live in the USA, and I don't experience this at all.
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Haerdune is not online. Haerdune
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 474
05 Jun 2013 02:57 PM
@Maximum
Everyone keeps what they have, they keep it under lock and key, make sure everyone knows it is theirs. It's a system that allows and silently encourages greed to be successful.
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RubiksCubix is not online. RubiksCubix
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 4243
05 Jun 2013 03:17 PM
Yes, but they also give freely.

What alternative do you propose? A system in which someone can just walk into your house and take your stuff? I agree, morally, this may not be the best system, but it guarantees property rights, and is the best we can realistically hope to get.
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Haerdune is not online. Haerdune
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 474
05 Jun 2013 03:21 PM
@RubiksCubix
Libraries give out books for free, it's a covenant of mutual trust and respect, you trust they'll keep the books relatively clean and readable and they trust that you'll return it on time. We could live in a world where no need for property rights, no need to sue McDonalds for coffee spilling on you (Yes, that happened, look it up)

We shouldn't hoard what we have, the wealthy are allowed and almost silently encouraged to hoard their wealth and the poor suffer. People think poor people are mindless leeches, but they're not.

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RubiksCubix is not online. RubiksCubix
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Total Posts: 4243
05 Jun 2013 04:47 PM
Libraries exist because KNOWLEDGE should belong to the community, and belong to no one.

And I agree with you on libraries, but I think that knowledge and property are different.

I would like to say that my parents started out poor. But they worked hard, got grants for poor people and scholarships to college, and now we are in the middle class. What you said about poor people is true, but in America, the system already works. How successful you are is proportionate to how hard you work. Yes, there are many outside factors, like talent, inheritance, and bad luck, so we cannot generalize, but for the most part, people who work hard get better lives. The people who are presented with the opportunity and don't take it, I am sorry to say, are 'mindless leeches'.

We don't encourage greed. We allow people to gain wealth proportionate to how hard they want to work. This isn't greedy, this enables all, even the poor, to be successful. This is why school k-12 and libraries are free, but property is not evenly distributed.
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infinete is not online. infinete
Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Total Posts: 1743
05 Jun 2013 04:50 PM
no need to sue McDonalds for coffee spilling on you (Yes, that happened, look it up)
---
Well the coffee gave her third degree burns
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mageofpower is not online. mageofpower
Top 100 Poster
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Total Posts: 43654
05 Jun 2013 04:52 PM
So your telling me you leave your door opened with a "feel free to take everything I own" sign plastered on your walls? Do you give away your car to people you see walking down the street?

Do you support Communism by any chance?
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JudasMaccabeus is not online. JudasMaccabeus
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Total Posts: 47
05 Jun 2013 05:08 PM
So you think I should be able to come in your house and steal all your stuff?
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MaximumMinimizer is not online. MaximumMinimizer
Joined: 26 May 2013
Total Posts: 1629
05 Jun 2013 06:49 PM
I asked for a real life example, an actual case, with proof if you can please.
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Haerdune is not online. Haerdune
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 474
06 Jun 2013 03:39 PM
@Rubiks
You have good logic, people should work hard but they seem to be working hard not for the sake of working hard but out of fear that if they don't they'll starve to death. Fear can also be a poison of the soul if it's allowed to rule over you.
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Haerdune is not online. Haerdune
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 474
06 Jun 2013 03:41 PM
@Judas
You phrase it like what I said, people are so definite of what's theirs is theirs and don't consider giving it away, they're allowed to hoard what they have and the poor suffer. It's not about, "Stealing" it's about being fueled by compassion, not fueled by greed.
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Haerdune is not online. Haerdune
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 474
06 Jun 2013 03:42 PM
@Maximum
Go to a poor area in the globe, if you don't have the time, get as pen pal from a poor area, a place where the economy is bad and people have to constantly worry about feeding their families. Ask them, ask them how their life is, how they struggle.
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MaximumMinimizer is not online. MaximumMinimizer
Joined: 26 May 2013
Total Posts: 1629
06 Jun 2013 05:06 PM
Example country?
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JudasMaccabeus is not online. JudasMaccabeus
Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Total Posts: 47
06 Jun 2013 05:10 PM
I have an iPad. Why can someone just take it away from me?
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sil4nc3r1223 is not online. sil4nc3r1223
Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Total Posts: 883
06 Jun 2013 11:38 PM
Why not a system fueled by compassion and sharing, instead of greed?
__________________________________________________________________
If people didn't like that system, they'd get rid of it. The majority seems pretty happy. And this system has been going on for quite some time.
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MahPizzaIsHere is not online. MahPizzaIsHere
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 7707
07 Jun 2013 12:31 PM
they seem to be working hard not for the sake of working hard but out of fear that if they don't they'll starve to death

____

This same sense of self-preservation, this most primal instinct, is manifested in relations and structures created out of interest for oneself. Norms, taboos, law, all created so society may endure.

Perhaps you would prefer to wear clothes not out of fear of exposure to the elements, but for the sake of wearing clothes.
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Haerdune is not online. Haerdune
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 474
08 Jun 2013 03:12 PM
@MahPizza
Many men choose to keep their lives simple, they wear clothes but they don't dress extravagantly. Humility is how you keep things in perspective, to not love a system that makes men suffer. Not of their laziness, but out of many things.
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
08 Jun 2013 03:27 PM
I never appreciated this cult of zero worship.

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Haerdune is not online. Haerdune
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 474
08 Jun 2013 03:30 PM
@Pepper0
I don't appreciate people simplifying my beliefs to a cult. We could quibble all day over what's a cult and what isn't. I am not a cult member, I don't worship zero. The true secret to happiness is not just going by hatred and greed but by recognizing the true origin of evil, that violence leads to even more violence.
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CommanderRoblock is not online. CommanderRoblock
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Total Posts: 16211
08 Jun 2013 03:32 PM
But what's mine is mine and you are not entitled to have it.

I however am, because it is mine to do as I please.
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MahPizzaIsHere is not online. MahPizzaIsHere
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 7707
08 Jun 2013 03:37 PM
"Many men choose to keep their lives simple, they wear clothes but they don't dress extravagantly. Humility is how you keep things in perspective, to not love a system that makes men suffer. Not of their laziness, but out of many things."

Pardon my ignorance, but you'll have to explain the relevance of the latter two sentences.

Moreover, you have done nothing to address my assertion that acting out of self-preservation is morally sound.
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pepper0 is not online. pepper0
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Total Posts: 12032
08 Jun 2013 03:38 PM
Those who see good in the simple and humble, is zero worship.


Also Love is selfish. Loving everyone equally and the same is the same as loving no one. Loving someone for the sake of your own kindness is the direct opposite of love. Love is an expression and assertion of self-esteem. Its response to one's own values and the person in another.
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Haerdune is not online. Haerdune
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 474
08 Jun 2013 03:39 PM
@MahPizza
The world can provide for everyone's need, but not for their greed.
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Haerdune is not online. Haerdune
Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Total Posts: 474
08 Jun 2013 03:42 PM
@Pepper0
I love everyone, if you love no one, how are you not sure you're a man? Think about it, men will get what they want through their own greed, they'll twist words, make lies. That's how evil men get into power, greedy men, arrogant men, intolerant men, hateful men who enslave those who oppose them, use violence to intimidate, to make others suffer.

There is no truly evil man, just men who are poisoned, their minds, their souls poisoned. No one is born evil, evil men are made.
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