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Re: Explain why the ServerReplicator callbacks are locked?

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coplox is not online. coplox
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 3252
20 Jun 2013 01:54 AM
There are four callbacks which are locked out of our hands. They are among a long list of properties and methods that are also locked, but these ones are the most important to me right now. If none of the others get unlocked, I would want these to. They give us more control over replication. We can create systems to deal with unauthorised code modification by ourselves. Yet it's locked.

You may have your reasons, but I would like to know them!

Is there a big flaw? Are you revealing it at BLOXcon? Are you too lazy? Are there higher priorities that you have to deal with first? Did you forget about it? Do you not want us to be able to reject replications?

I really want to know, soon.

This isn't a request to unlock them immediately, but is a demand for an explanation as to why they are locked.
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coplox is not online. coplox
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 3252
20 Jun 2013 02:10 AM
Even a simple "We're not ready to tell you yet." will suffice, the silence about it is killing me.
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thedestroyer115 is not online. thedestroyer115
Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 11546
20 Jun 2013 11:50 AM
inb4SorcusBEAR
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ColorfulBody is not online. ColorfulBody
Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 2353
20 Jun 2013 12:03 PM
The only reason I'm putting pressure for them to get released is because we really need them, and they'd really make ROBLOX better. ROBLOX has been exploited since its creation, and those could really end that. Generally, once a feature is implemented and all is left is to release it, I don't care much (that's why nobody has seen me criticizing ROBLOX for not releasing GUI rotation), because I know it'll be released sooner or later. But this one would just be so useful (it'd allow us to get local lighting, local parts and local everything in a non-kludgy way (although these are perhaps themselves kludges in the first place)) that I wonder why ROBLOX doesn't release it yet.

Anyway, you should all read the following: https://twitter.com/MarkOtaris/status/344290966578024448 ; it explains how replication filtering works pretty well.
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coplox is not online. coplox
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Total Posts: 3252
20 Jun 2013 12:13 PM
"I wonder why ROBLOX doesn't release it yet."

Exactly the point of the thread! Thanks for explaining how it works, by the way.
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Parthax is not online. Parthax
Joined: 27 Apr 2011
Total Posts: 6941
20 Jun 2013 01:53 PM
inb4TheresATinyChanceOfItBeingExploited


cнecĸмαтe, ɴooвѕ.
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RenderSettings is not online. RenderSettings
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 2560
20 Jun 2013 01:56 PM
Seeing how you can control ANYTHING that is replicated, there is.
Player joins -> Creates blank player -> Sets name
Guess which one of those are able to be blocked with filters?
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Sorcus is not online. Sorcus
Forum Moderator
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 3775
20 Jun 2013 02:05 PM
Will not be unlocked.

~Sorcus
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RenderSettings is not online. RenderSettings
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Total Posts: 2560
20 Jun 2013 02:11 PM
Then that is a terrible idea. That's the very best defense you could give people over exploiter, and would stop you guys from having to un-break your hash checker every time someone *cough booing cough* bypasses it!
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Sorcus is not online. Sorcus
Forum Moderator
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 3775
20 Jun 2013 02:19 PM
It's how the cookie crumbles.

~Sorcus
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ColorfulBody is not online. ColorfulBody
Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 2353
20 Jun 2013 02:20 PM
> Will not be unlocked.

Wait, do you mean it will not be unlocked soon, or do you mean it'll never be unlocked?

...

Ok, can you at least give us the reasoning?
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ColorfulBody is not online. ColorfulBody
Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 2353
20 Jun 2013 02:22 PM
Replication filtering is the only proper way in a sandbox game like ROBLOX to prevent malicious clients from having on a remote server control they should not have. This is because scripts running on the client may need to do all sorts of things, and thus unless the owner can specify to the engine what clients should be able to do, there is no way for it to guess what it can do (other than general things such as that clients should not be able to use protected stuff, since local scripts can't anyway).
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ScriptersSubforum is not online. ScriptersSubforum
Joined: 13 Jun 2013
Total Posts: 4
20 Jun 2013 02:22 PM
hi i am sorcus and i do not liek to fix problems i only liek to create them

ehehehhe
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ColorfulBody is not online. ColorfulBody
Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 2353
20 Jun 2013 02:25 PM
Come on... back when replication filtering was implemented, we were told by some developers that we could eventually use it. And now... we're being told exactly the opposite.
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Sorcus is not online. Sorcus
Forum Moderator
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 3775
20 Jun 2013 02:36 PM
I don't know who told you but no.

~Sorcus
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thedestroyer115 is not online. thedestroyer115
Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 11546
20 Jun 2013 02:38 PM
Sorcus.
You have not supplied a reason.

Hey, maybe they want to promote the stealing of games. It quickly puts the copied games into the hands of dirty little freemodelers who can streamline them to the front page.
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bohdan77 is not online. bohdan77
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 7944
20 Jun 2013 02:39 PM
What are the cons of allowing all users to use the Replicator?
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Sorcus is not online. Sorcus
Forum Moderator
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 3775
20 Jun 2013 02:41 PM
Scalability.

~Sorcus
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thedestroyer115 is not online. thedestroyer115
Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Total Posts: 11546
20 Jun 2013 02:43 PM
I want to puke.
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ColorfulBody is not online. ColorfulBody
Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 2353
20 Jun 2013 02:46 PM
@Sorcus

One of the main points in having the content team is to build games using only the tools available to game developers, in order to figure out what it could be useful to add to ROBLOX for game developers, right? Most of the games created by the content team use the replication filtering API, and it has tremendously helped improving the experience while playing these games by making them not have exploiters playing them.

I'm pretty sure even ROBLOX Battle, which you claim to have been an attempt to create a game with only the tools available to users, uses the replication filtering API. ROBLOX's games are pretty much the only games that are playable without constant exploiting. People on S&I and everywhere keep complaining about exploits and asking ROBLOX to do something (I realize ROBLOX is indeed doing things about exploits, but they're still there and people still complain).

There's probably a good reason for not releasing replication filtering, at least in its current state, but, still... I just don't really understand.
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Sorcus is not online. Sorcus
Forum Moderator
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Total Posts: 3775
20 Jun 2013 02:48 PM
@ColorfulBody. Let me correct you there sir. Battle does not use replication filtering. The previous games we did so because there was an outside contract from LEGO, KREO, Disney etc. I know Build and Battle uses it but it didn't go anywhere.

Neither will any future in house games use that API. That's my thought on this, atleast for now.

~Sorcus
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abaw7 is not online. abaw7
Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Total Posts: 745
20 Jun 2013 02:48 PM
I think Replication filtering really needs to be a priority. And, can you, Sorcus, please explain why it's locked?
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ColorfulBody is not online. ColorfulBody
Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 2353
20 Jun 2013 02:49 PM
It's seriously hard to play games without them constantly getting exploited. One or two days ago, I took a look at Kestrel's store and I had to constantly go from one server to another because they all kept getting exploited. That's what happens to every single game not created by ROBLOX that is featured on the blog or gets on the front page.

It's really disappointing to see this when you know there's a very simple solution that actually works, since it's been used completely successfully in ROBLOX games. Replication filtering DOES work: just look at the 2013 egg hunt and compare it with the 2012 egg hunt. Exploiting basically ruined the 2012 egg hunt because exploiters kept joining servers, destroying everything and giving all the eggs to everyone. This didn't happen in the 2013 egg hunt, and it wasn't because of the lack of available exploits.
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bohdan77 is not online. bohdan77
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Total Posts: 7944
20 Jun 2013 02:51 PM
> Scalability.
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ColorfulBody is not online. ColorfulBody
Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Total Posts: 2353
20 Jun 2013 02:51 PM
"@ColorfulBody. Let me correct you there sir. Battle does not use replication filtering. The previous games we did so because there was an outside contract from LEGO, KREO, Disney etc. I know Build and Battle uses it but it didn't go anywhere."

It doesn't? Well, I wasn't sure of it, so that's why I only said that I was pretty sure of it. It's surprising, however, in such circumstances, that ROBLOX Battle doesn't get exploited like all other games. Did you use some special trick we aren't aware of to prevent it?

Anyway, I assumed that ROBLOX Battle did because pretty much all games previously released by ROBLOX did, including all the sponsored contests, Build and Battle, the egg hunts, SFOTH and a bunch of other games.
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